• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

MIC'd Cab or DI from Axe-Fx

I spent all of yesterday with my band testing live sounds in my living room. It's a fairly large room and we did our best to emulate a Live Venue stage/FOH setup. The consensus was mic'ing the cabs...even the BASS cab, (w/a Beta 52) was better than taking DI across the board. I'm curious what you guys think and how u prefer using your axe-fx and why.

Guitar 1 Panned Left - Axe-Fx>Powerstage 700>Orange 2X12>Shure SM57
Guitar 2 Panned Right - Axe-Fx> Powerstage 700> Orange 4X12>Shure SM57
Bass Center - ISP Decimator>Cali Comp>Dark Glass BK7>Mesa Carbine > Mesa 2X12 (I think)

View attachment 45382
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
There’s no wrong way to do it if you end up with a tone you’re inspired by. One thing that might be worth trying is mic’ing your cabs and shooting IR’s and A/B’ing the recorded mic sound vs the direct IR tone and seeing if there’s a huge difference. The benefit to a direct tone is that it allows you to have lower stage volume and gives FOH more control over the band mix so you’ll sound better to the audience. At least in my experience, that’s been a better route to take. If the IR is shot correctly, there’s no distinguishable difference between the mic’d live cab and the IR.

At the end of the day, do what’s best for your band, but that would be an interesting experiment and may leave you with a portable tone solution that sounds great in every venue.
 
I have to apologize, I did not mean to post this in the AXE-FX III threads...im used to the AXE-FX II thread living in this location, lol. If anyone knows how to move this to the correct thread I would greatly appreciate it.
 
One thing that might be worth trying is mic’ing your cabs and shooting IR’s and A/B’ing the recorded mic sound vs the direct IR tone and seeing if there’s a huge difference. The benefit to a direct tone is that it allows you to have lower stage volume and gives FOH more control over the band mix so you’ll sound better to the audience.
I thought of trying this, and actually have done it before, but didn't have much success, prob bc I am not the greatest at capturing IR's. Idk though, something about mic'ing up a real cab in a live setting in conjunction w/the backline/stage volume sounds better to me than lower stage volume and going DI. I theorize that it has to do with the air of micing a cab...and getting that LITTLE bit of bleed (stage volume, drums, air etc.) into the mic's makes everything a little more cohesive IMO, it has that RAW/REAL feeling and sound to it. I should try the IR thing again though for comparison sake...One thing to note, I would want to get an amp clamp w/my own mics so that my MIC'd tones are same or at least close to the same at every venue, vs. letting sound guy use his mics and positioning...
 

Clockwork Creep

Power User
There is barely any or no audible difference between mic'ing a cab and going direct, when using the axe fx, so I wouldn't bother with mics. Having to carefully place a mic every time is a waste of effort.
But a cab on stage does add a lot, in smaller venues. Having a cab, and going direct at the same time is the best mix.
 

York Audio

Power User
Vendor
I thought of trying this, and actually have done it before, but didn't have much success, prob bc I am not the greatest at capturing IR's. Idk though, something about mic'ing up a real cab in a live setting in conjunction w/the backline/stage volume sounds better to me than lower stage volume and going DI. I theorize that it has to do with the air of micing a cab...and getting that LITTLE bit of bleed (stage volume, drums, air etc.) into the mic's makes everything a little more cohesive IMO, it has that RAW/REAL feeling and sound to it. I should try the IR thing again though for comparison sake...One thing to note, I would want to get an amp clamp w/my own mics so that my MIC'd tones are same or at least close to the same at every venue, vs. letting sound guy use his mics and positioning...
I agree that a live cab feels the best, and there is definitely something gained by the interaction of a guitar and real speakers. Having said that, by running direct, you can have the cranked amp sound but you’re able to adjust the cab volume to where it’s present, but doesn’t overpower the PA. Different rooms will allow more or less stage volume, but having a consistent feed to FOH will ensure a great sounding rig every night. No two cabs sound identical and no two speakers sound identical, so shooting your own cab will give you the most familiar sound.

I deal with the bleed you’re talking about with my band as well. The other guys have their amps CRANKED, but when I hear the playback from FOH, my guitar is actually the clearest because there isn’t any ambient noise clouding my channels.

At the end of the day, you have to do what’s right for you, but I do think it would be a worthwhile experiment to try. And if you don’t dig the direct sound, then crank away, my friend.
 
There is barely any or no audible difference between mic'ing a cab and going direct, when using the axe fx, so I wouldn't bother with mics. Having to carefully place a mic every time is a waste of effort.
But a cab on stage does add a lot, in smaller venues. Having a cab, and going direct at the same time is the best mix.
I guess it depends on the IR, but we tried several Orange 4X12 CAB IR's from the ML Cab Packs and everytime we still voted that the ACTUAL Mic'd cab sounded better. I really do think its the consistency between the actual cab reacting to the air in that specific room and micing that sound into the PA that makes it more cohesive.
 

StickMan

Experienced
My guess would be that you're coming up against the "amp in the room" v. FRFR situation, you must be hearing the amp cabinets directly, and that's making the difference to you. Clearly, you're not going to get that same effect unless the venues you're playing in are going to work with a fair amount of wash coming off the stage to add that quality to the sound. Of course that's going to take away some of the control from the soundman.

What happens if you put the amps in another room so that you can't hear them directly?
 
do both and but no mics, axe>DI box>amp/cab>FOH. Blend them
That would most likely cause phase issues, having a DI and Mic'd cab. Or are you saying go DI to FOH and just have a AMp/CAB backline un-mic'd. I do that already and do like it but its the DI sound im having an issue with.
 
My guess would be that you're coming up against the "amp in the room" v. FRFR situation, you must be hearing the amp cabinets directly, and that's making the difference to you. Clearly, you're not going to get that same effect unless the venues you're playing in are going to work with a fair amount of wash coming off the stage to add that quality to the sound. Of course that's going to take away some of the control from the soundman.

What happens if you put the amps in another room so that you can't hear them directly?
Thats exactly what it is. THAT is the Cohesive sound im talking about, using the STAGE wash as part of the house mix...I guess I will have to start asking the sound guys to use the stage wash as part of our mix...ya that'll go over well haha.

Regardless of how loud or quiet stage sound is (lets admit, it's typically never that quiet) the stage sound will ALWAYS be there. I see your point to put the cabs in a different room for a true A/B comparison but live it would never be like that...unless you're using isolation boxes or in a giant stadium concert hall etc. hence the idea that for live, mic'd cabs MAY be better, IMO.
 

StickMan

Experienced
Thats exactly what it is. THAT is the Cohesive sound im talking about, using the STAGE wash as part of the house mix...I guess I will have to start asking the sound guys to use the stage wash as part of our mix...ya that'll go over well haha.

Regardless of how loud or quiet stage sound is (lets admit, it's typically never that quiet) the stage sound will ALWAYS be there. I see your point to put the cabs in a different room for a true A/B comparison but live it would never be like that...unless you're using isolation boxes or in a giant stadium concert hall etc. hence the idea that for live, mic'd cabs MAY be better, IMO.
In that case, I'd suggest using two outputs. On with a cab block to go to FOH, and the other without to go to cabinets on stage. Undoubtedly, the IR is going to be a better input to the FOH than an SM57 stuck in front of the cabinet.
 

Geezerjohn

Fractal Fanatic
I'll jump in here. I use out 1 to FOH and out 2 to a Line 6 Flextone II XL. It is a 100w amp loaded with 2 Celestion 12's. I run out 2 on the Axe to the effects return on the Flextone. I use a TRS Y cable for out 2 so I capture the stereo feed. With the Axe you can control the volume of each output so I have complete control over my volume. Works great. The FOH signal is what the audience is listening to, but the Flextone gives me some whoop on the stage. No need for me to capture IRs. I just dial in my presets (at gig volume) and I'm good to go. Usually a flat eq channel strip on the mixing desk is good. Once in a while I need to tweak the eq on the board, but not very often. Usually when I need t eq the board, it is in a venue that is not very band friendly.
 
In that case, I'd suggest using two outputs. On with a cab block to go to FOH, and the other without to go to cabinets on stage. Undoubtedly, the IR is going to be a better input to the FOH than an SM57 stuck in front of the cabinet.
Thats exactly what im doing now for all our gigs, DI to FOH and CAB as a backline. But we A/B'd these two setups the other day and the mic on cab sounded better IMO.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
Thats exactly what im doing now for all our gigs, DI to FOH and CAB as a backline. But we A/B'd these two setups the other day and the mic on cab sounded better IMO.
Did you tweak the cab block at all? High and Low Cut? What about the preamp page of the Cab block?

Also, were you matching the speaker + mic combo between the two types?
 
Prob not as much as I could have, but I did match Cabinets and Mics yes. Orange 4X12 + SM57. I toggled through several Orange 4X12 IR's from ML Soundlab Cab Pack 13 I believe.
 
hmmm, it's not there let me repost it here. Cabs are approx. 8-10 feet back from the Mains. Mains are about 5ft off the ground, Cabs are on the floor.

Screen Shot 2018-03-12 at 12.13.51 PM.png
 

unix-guy

Legend!
Prob not as much as I could have, but I did match Cabinets and Mics yes. Orange 4X12 + SM57. I toggled through several Orange 4X12 IR's from ML Soundlab Cab Pack 13 I believe.
But are they the same speakers? I would compare IRs of same speaker+mic instead of cab...
 
Top Bottom