• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Mic Models in stock cab IR's / general discussion

apescaleconflict

Experienced
Hey!

I've owned Ultra for 2 years and just bought Axe II, i gotta say i freaking love it. I've been wondering a long time and have wanted to discuss about the thing that has bothered me a while.
I have been doing a lots of things wrong or i'm just 1 in the million who doesn't use MIC modeling in axe. This bothers me, as i feel im losing features that supposedly works for 99% users.

I've done stuff with music a LONG time, and i feel like a fucking amateur with this dilemma. :D First of all, Isn't the impulses already captured with some kinda microphone so that there basically is a MIC
in the CAB model already? I just feel everytime when i add a mic model that it oversaturates my tones or i lose something important...

So, im just wishing someone or you guys share some wisdom so i could maby understand why i feel this or just accept that im not doing it right :D
 

yek

Legend!
All stocks cabs have been captured with one or more mics indeed (of course). Selecting "NONE" still leaves you with an IR that was close-mic'd (exception: farfield IRs, see below).

In some cases this is a "neutral" mic, which records the IR without adding color of its own. Here's more info about the stock cabs:

(RW) = Red Wirez. These IRs were captured using a neutral microphone.
(OH) = Ownhammer. These IRs were captured with non-neutral mics.
(JM) = Jay Mitchell. These "farfield" IRs were captured using a neutral microphone.
(Kalthallen) = Kalthallen. These IRs were captured with non-neutral mics.
Santiago = James Santiago. These IRs were captured with non-neutral mics.
Mix = Fractal's Producer Pack IRs, captured using a mix of microphones and a Neve 1070 preamp.
Other cabs: original Fractal IRs, captured using a neutral microphone.

You can use the info above to decide whether you want to use mic modeling or not.

For example, because the stock RW IRs were captured using a neutral mic, you use DYN57 as a mic model. This adds that "SM57" bite, which may make the sound cut better in the mix.

If you select a stock OH IR, you may not want to use mic modeling because those IRs already are "colored" by a specific mic. But as always: anything goes.
 
Last edited:

Marcus Siepen

Inspired
You don't have to use a mic, if you like the sound without a mic then go for it, no problem with that.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 7 mit Tapatalk
 

apescaleconflict

Experienced
Thanks YEK, that's useful information!

Marcus, sure i don't have to, i was just wondering if im doing something "WRONG" from the beginning figuratively speaking. Since i really have not found any use to them yet, but i'd really like to learn as it shouldn't be a problem :D
Still i get too much highend or low issues that can't seem to work out without loosing the aggression. I'd like to learn how to do it "right" but i guess the issue is just on adjusting it right and try try try on me. I know people does this all the time
and gets awesome results, so, today's about that when i leave work :D THX guys.
 

swervedriver

Inspired
There's not really a wrong way to do things. When you're auditioning IRs, I'd suggest not to bother with mic sims right away. Find one that does what you like, or is at least close to what you like; then try some things in the amp block. Set master volume, gain, bass, mid, treble to your taste. Try the Cut switch to tighten up the low end, perhaps adjust the bass (or depth) again. Try playing with the Bright switch and/or presence to find a pleasing high end (as in not too dull and not icepick-sharp). Especially with the current firmware I find that with the right IR and simply adjusting the basic amp parameters I can easily get very useful tones.

If that still doesn't get you exactly the tone you want, then you might try different mics. Generally I don't use them anymore: there's a lot of added parameters (which mic sim, proximity values) and thus difficulty in finding what works. The ever increasing number of mixed IRs (in the factory IRs but also as 3rd party IRs by FAS, OwnHammer, etc) have done all this painstaking work for you and in my case they've certainly eased my quest for tone. :)
 

apescaleconflict

Experienced
Thanks man, at this point experimenting with the cab IR:s that's basically the couragement that i was "looking" after, that it isn't neccessarily the POINT in tweaking. I just got this idea because every preset that i've downloaded has a mic of choice already in there and i feel that's way too much... But as noted, i gota get more experience with this! :)

There's not really a wrong way to do things. When you're auditioning IRs, I'd suggest not to bother with mic sims right away. Find one that does what you like, or is at least close to what you like; then try some things in the amp block. Set master volume, gain, bass, mid, treble to your taste. Try the Cut switch to tighten up the low end, perhaps adjust the bass (or depth) again. Try playing with the Bright switch and/or presence to find a pleasing high end (as in not too dull and not icepick-sharp). Especially with the current firmware I find that with the right IR and simply adjusting the basic amp parameters I can easily get very useful tones.

If that still doesn't get you exactly the tone you want, then you might try different mics. Generally I don't use them anymore: there's a lot of added parameters (which mic sim, proximity values) and thus difficulty in finding what works. The ever increasing number of mixed IRs (in the factory IRs but also as 3rd party IRs by FAS, OwnHammer, etc) have done all this painstaking work for you and in my case they've certainly eased my quest for tone. :)
 

Guitarjon

Fractal Fanatic
I use the mic models a lot.
I mostly use them on the factory cabs except the newer mix cabs.
Sometimes I even use them on free impulses I have found on the web.
I sometimes use the 4x12 metal cab that isn't stock in the axe anymore.
Sometimes however I feel this IR lacks a little low end.
I'll then add the R121 or U67 mic to add some lows and warmth.
If a cabs sounds a bit too thin this can be usefull.
It also works the other way around.
The soldano cabs can sound too dark at times, then the 421 mic can be usefull to make the sound a bit thinner.
See it more as an eq for additional shaping to your sound.
 

apescaleconflict

Experienced
So there's not any dynamical difference between the microphones? As an harsh example, if i'd tweak my EQ curves post cab enough, i can get the same results as with the mic simulation? There's nothing deeper programming than EQ on those?
I didn't actually think this before but it would be interesting to know :)
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
So there's not any dynamical difference between the microphones? As an harsh example, if i'd tweak my EQ curves post cab enough, i can get the same results as with the mic simulation? There's nothing deeper programming than EQ on those?
I didn't actually think this before but it would be interesting to know :)

IIRC, the mic models are IR's, so they are a much finer resolution than any EQ in the AxeFx.
 

Fabio KTG

Fractal Fanatic
So there's not any dynamical difference between the microphones? As an harsh example, if i'd tweak my EQ curves post cab enough, i can get the same results as with the mic simulation? There's nothing deeper programming than EQ on those?
I didn't actually think this before but it would be interesting to know :)

If you look up the frequency curve of any particular microphone, NONE are completely neutral. The all have dips and spikes somewhere in their curve, it's just whether or not the dip or spike occurs within the audible frequency range of a guitar tone. Take the Senheisser SM58 for example. It's used throughout the world as a "go to" mic for live audio applications. Why? Because it's pretty much flat from 200hz to 4-4.5khz, which is where the majority of a guitar tone is heard. You can see from the curve that from 4.5khz, it has a spike at 8khz, which is where you hear the "bite". I personally like a roll off at 4-8khz, but its all subjective. The roll off at sub 200hz is handy for keeping out of the kick and bass guitar's territory, which stops the live mix's bottom end from sounding like mush.
 

Sixstring

Legend!
When all else fails use your ears man! I'm all over the place when it comes to using mic's with cab IR's, whatever sounds good.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
If you look up the frequency curve of any particular microphone, NONE are completely neutral. The all have dips and spikes somewhere in their curve, it's just whether or not the dip or spike occurs within the audible frequency range of a guitar tone. Take the Senheisser SM58 for example. It's used throughout the world as a "go to" mic for live audio applications. Why? Because it's pretty much flat from 200hz to 4-4.5khz, which is where the majority of a guitar tone is heard. You can see from the curve that from 4.5khz, it has a spike at 8khz, which is where you hear the "bite". I personally like a roll off at 4-8khz, but its all subjective. The roll off at sub 200hz is handy for keeping out of the kick and bass guitar's territory, which stops the live mix's bottom end from sounding like mush.

Did you mean Shure SM57?

http://cdn.shure.com/specification_sheet/upload/81/us_pro_sm57_specsheet.pdf

It's far from flat up to 4.45kHz. It has a noticeable presence bump that starts at 2k. This helps instruments cut.

Also SM57's are frequently used off-axis. This adds to the knarly sound quality that can help distorted guitars cut a mix.
 
Top Bottom