• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Mic CAB instead of going DI?

Curious if anyone has tried mic'ing cabs via axe-fx>power amp>cab instead of sending DI signal straight to FOH? I am getting A LOT of feedback from audience members saying my tones are lacking "power and presence...not pushing AIR" in comparison to our Bassist and Drummer. Wondering if maybe mic'ing my cabs instead would change that. A lot of the bands I have heard at venues I frequently play are using real amps/cabs that are mic'd up and the tones/sounds seem to be drastically more powerful coming out of the PA.

thoughts?
 

chris

Legend!
have you created your tones at a loud rehearsal? or were they created at low volumes alone?
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Kind of a step backwards as more and more bands are actually going direct to FOH to get away of the PITA that is mic'ing a cab, plus the PITA that is hauling a cab around

The Axe has a ton of tone shaping tools, in addition to there being a ton of great IR's on the market, that can give plenty of great tone from a PA> I mean heck, look at Metallica, they are sending the Axe right to the FOH, and Big Mick doesn't even need to make any adjustments at the board for the guitars, because the tone is already dialed in right out of the Axe.

You want the sound of a SM57 close to the cone ? Easy, but lets say you want a Sennheiser MD 421 mixed in with it slightly off-axis ? What do you do with a real cab ? Hope you or the venue own that mic, hope you've got a means to mount it, another channel on the board, time to sound check so you can position it and dial it in at the board, and then a way to remember just how you has it positioned so you can repeat that the next gig....

Or with the Axe, you just grab that mix combo, already expertly mixed from one of the ML Alloy mix folders and boom, your done....

Can't say I personally ever want to haul a cab around again, worry about my expensive mics at a gig, deal with the hassles of mic'ing and sound checks etc again. With the Axe its show up, send them a XLR, and call it a day
 

mr_fender

Fractal Fanatic
have you created your tones at a loud rehearsal? or were they created at low volumes alone?
+1 This makes all the difference in the world. Plus, if there's a particular mic'd cab setup you like, capture your own IR from it. Then you'll have that specific tone at your disposal without the need to haul around the cab.
 
lol, i knew I'd catch some flack for this post. I agree with all of you. Yes I have tested/checked loud at rehearsal over 2 Mackie HD1221's. Still had a hard time cutting through (no matter what frequencies i boosted/cut the sound just never seemed to compete with our bassist and drummer), but when I switched to my cabs (Orange 4X12 and Mesa 2X12 Vert Slant in stereo, one on each side of drums) the sound was sonically more present, I could feel the air move in the room. I'm no novice to the axe-fx. I understand mic'ing a cab defeats the purpose of the unit, I was just curious if anyone had ever tried it, I actually saw a dude play here in town and he mic'd his 4X12 via axe>PA. and it did not sound bad at all. Interesting.

One thing I should note is im the only guitarist in our band and i run stereo via the MIMIQ pedal to get a double tracked or two guitarists sound. Its possible that my guitars are getting lost bc im in stereo not mono. Gonna try some new ideas out this weekend with the band and REALLY see what sounds better in a live setting. There is one setting on the MIMIQ I haven't tried live yet, its mode two which is wet/dry/wet basically so im still stereo but I would gain back that dry signal in mono down the center. Maybe that'll help.
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Well for one thing, when your mic'ing a cab, your getting the sound of the cab itself, plus the sound going to the PA. More speakers delivering more sound is going to sound "bigger" for better or worse.

Even without a mic a 4x12 and 2x12 on stage is going to be louder/fuller than 2 Mackie's..... Of course we can't overlook the issue though that what might sound better/fuller to you on stage, might actually sound worse to those in the audience who might be hearing your cab on-axis, and then getting the PA mixed with that... its a reason why many who do still mic cabs (and yes, plenty do) often have that mic'd cab off stage, in an iso-box etc, because that way the FOH mix has full control over what people are hearing in the venue

Obviously matters are compounded though with acoustic drums, and competing with the bass guitarist.

I'd say you don't have a mic vs unmic'd issue, instead you have a stage volume/mix issue and your hoping that putting more cabs on stage will help fill it. It may, but mic'ing the cab isn't providing any magic, because at the very least, you could shoot a custom IR of your cab and then you've got the same thing.

If you really like the sound of the cab on stage, but still want to deliver guitar in the mix to FOH, why not just have a cab on stage, not mic'd, and then also run an output, with cab block, to the FOH ??? Avoids all the mess of sticking a microphone in front of a cabinet, and from your standpoint, its going to sound the same, since your hearing the cab direct, not mic'd in the first place.
 

Paperjace

Experienced
For my band, we do a mix of FOH and cabs...but no mics on the cabs. Seems a little counter-productive, but we get compliments on our sound all the time since doing this combination. We send our guitars direct to FOH, but also send to un-miked cabs on stage to fill out the sound for people in the front row. We felt this keeps the audience happy wherever they are in the venue.

We played one show with 100% direct and no cabs. Some of our friends in the front row complained they couldn't hear the guitars because they were standing beyond the FOH array of speakers. Could just be a flaw in the club's design, but since then we've done direct + cab and it's been nothing but compliments since. Plus it just looks cool having half-stacks on stage :)
 

Rex

Legend!
Yes I have tested/checked loud at rehearsal over 2 Mackie HD1221's. Still had a hard time cutting through (no matter what frequencies i boosted/cut the sound just never seemed to compete with our bassist and drummer)...
If you still can't cut through with two HD1221s with mids boosted and highs/lows cut back, something isn't configured right. I plug into a single 300-watt wedge that also carries a stage mix. I stand three feet from the crash. No problem hearing myself.
 

Rex

Legend!
We played one show with 100% direct and no cabs. Some of our friends in the front row complained they couldn't hear the guitars because they were standing beyond the FOH array of speakers. Could just be a flaw in the club's design, but since then we've done direct + cab and it's been nothing but compliments since. Plus it just looks cool having half-stacks on stage :)
It sucks when you have to make up for house deficiencies with your own gear. Let the venue know they need a front fill or two. :)
 
If you still can't cut through with two HD1221s with mids boosted and highs/lows cut back, something isn't configured right. I plug into a single 300-watt wedge that also carries a stage mix. I stand three feet from the crash. No problem hearing myself.
Im def. configured correctly, I think I need to pursuade our Bassist to make some adjustments, I love his tone its punishing but holy hell does it just take over everthing.
 
Thanks for the advice fellas. I appreciate. I have had two shows that were our best SOUNDING shows per the audience reactions and critiques. One show I used CABS and the other show I used my MACKIES on stage. So...ya thats where i'm at. Gonna try the CABS again next show.
 

Moke

Axe-Master
Vendor
Covering the front couple of rows can be tough with no back-line.
  1. Are you using the Mackies at the shows? Are they setup as wedges if front of you? Or as back-line?
  2. Can you get the other members to take it down a notch and be 'team players'? (I know, good luck with that)
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Have your bassist pick up an Axe II or AX8 (surely the new Darkglass pedal will sell him on it) then instead of trying to compete with his stage volume, you can run both guitars and bass, properly mixed through your Mackie's

Nice thing is when you get the patches dialed in, you guys can both just plug in, not touch anything, and deliver a consistent tone to the PA

Again, if it works for Metallica...
 

Rex

Legend!
Im def. configured correctly, I think I need to pursuade our Bassist to make some adjustments, I love his tone its punishing but holy hell does it just take over everthing.
Try this:

Put a Filter at the end of your chain. Set it for Peaking2 at 800 Hz, with low Q (around 0.5). Set Gain to 4 dB or so. Then see how you cut.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
It can be easier to mic a cab vs. direct to accomplish your goal. And there is no "shame" in that.

I would think it's possible to get the FOH sound you are looking for, direct, but most likely will require some IR selection prowess and preset programming prowess to get there.

I find the Fractal to be so versatile, the possibilities are there, but complex enough to have me scratching my head too.

It certainly seems easier to forgo the cab block and IR's as far as getting an amp like tone.
 

boardwlk17

Power User
I use a matrix and a 4x12 in small clubs i sometimes use a joe bonamassa shield in front of my 4x12 and i come through a monitor wedge in front of me from xlr out 1 but thats mostly for us on stage. Everyone has there own monitor mix,,we try to keep the stage volume as low as possible so the foh can get a good mix. the foh gets direct XLR from out 1 thats what everyone in the crowd gets, a good mix of everyone.
P.s our bass player gets way too loud sometimes and it blows out the stage,a good mix is needed on stage as well as foh
 

Clockwork Creep

Power User
Do you use the cab on stage or do you go JUST direct?
I'd recommend taking the cab on stage, but instead of mic'ing it, going direct. Best of both worlds. The air movement and naturality of a cab on stage, and the flexibility and quality of the IR going through foh.
 

M_Falc

New Member
I use a power amp/cab configuration with the AxeFX and I really prefer it over a FR speaker. I like the way a 4x12 cab resonates onstage and it just feels better to play. It's a beast.
When playing smaller venues the audience is hearing much of the actual band coming off the stage so it's beneficial to have a real cab in that situation. But if you're playing arenas like Metallica then it doesn't matter. Ymmv.
 

Desmo808

Experienced
I am getting A LOT of feedback from audience members saying my tones are lacking "power and presence...not pushing AIR" in comparison to our Bassist and Drummer.
Rather than make it one or the other (DI or mic cab), supplement your DI with a cab. FRFR or guitar cab, whichever you prefer. FOH will have a pristine DI to work with, and you'll have stage volume for nearby audience members.
Of the audience members that mention your lack of presence, how many are close to the stage, and how many are far back enough to truly appreciate the FOH system?

This is what I'm getting at:
We played one show with 100% direct and no cabs. Some of our friends in the front row complained they couldn't hear the guitars because they were standing beyond the FOH array of speakers.
+1 ^

P.s our bass player gets way too loud sometimes and it blows out the stage,a good mix is needed on stage as well as foh
I have to deal with this all the time. Our bassist is way louder than the drums. o_O
I'm DI to FOH, so I don't even need a backline. Yet, I have one anyway, so I at least have SOME faint sonic footprint for people near the stage. I don't crank it because I'm trying to avoid a volume war.

IMHO either everybody goes DI, or you must have some kind of supplementary cab (guitar cab or FRFR) to back you up on stage. While FOH does the heavy lifting sonically, if fellow band members are trying to surrogate the FOH with their own stage volume, you'll get lost in the mix unless you have additional firepower on stage.
 
Top Bottom