MFC Availability 2013?

Wow, I thought I was as clear as could be. I don't have a problem with any of this capitalism 101 stuff, or paying more if I decide to do that. You guys are saying this stuff, not Fractal. They say:

"We are currently processing a WAIT LIST for MFC-101 orders. The direct price has been temporarily increased to $999 so we can offer wait list customers with discount codes a first chance to purchase..."


Seriously, show me where Fractal makes the same claims as you guys and then I can make an informed decision.

Jeez, somebody just tell him what he wants to hear already so that he can be happy.

The price increase seems to have occurred in order to discourage from people buying direct so that people on the list could get there hands on one. So are you really just waiting to hear the same thing from Fractal? They already said it, but not in the words that you would like, should they repeat it just slightly differently in order to make you happy?

It seems like you already understand what is going on, but you just dont want to except it for whatever reason.
 
First, the analogy is not a good one and also inaccurate.
What you should have said was:
"let's say you (Kidsfeet and S0c9) have been gone to buy tickets for a concert, and had put your names on a list to be informed when tickets were available - for an agreed upon discounted price. After you have been informed that tickets are available on a limited basis, the concert promoter comes through the line and says "folks, we are processing the ticket wait list in the order in which your names were put on it, however, if you want them, we have those tickets available NOW, for an extra $250 per ticket. If you want to pay the premium price, move up to this window and get yours now."

And yeah, the sense of entitlement is strong with many of these posters.


Your analogy is flawed my friend. The MFC units ARE available now. They are being sold to BOTH the people that have been patiently waiting for months AND the people in the back of the line who are willing to pay the ridiculous price of $1000. What you failed to mention is that there are a limited number of units, and that many of the people that have been waiting in line (and yes, are legally entitled to one at that agreed upon price) aren't going to get one for another 6 months because of the people buying them at $1000.

It's just wrong...it may be supply and demand, but it's still wrong. FAS is basically saying "Yes we have them in stock, and we know you've been waiting 5 months for one, but we're not going to be able to sell you one at the price we agreed to, because we're selling it to this other guy for more...sorry...maybe you'll have more luck in 6 months when we have another shipment..."

cobbler, you know nothing about me or how much I make. I've been making six figures for over 20 years. I have a room full of high end equipment. (Mesa Boogie, Two-Rock, Friedman, Suhr, the list goes on and on) So don't judge me. It's not about a little extra $$. It's about a company treating its customer badly.

And yeah, the arrogance and condescension is strong with many of these posters.
 
Your analogy is flawed my friend. The MFC units ARE available now. They are being sold to BOTH the people that have been patiently waiting for months AND the people in the back of the line who are willing to pay the ridiculous price of $1000. What you failed to mention is that there are a limited number of units, and that many of the people that have been waiting in line (and yes, are legally entitled to one at that agreed upon price) aren't going to get one for another 6 months because of the people buying them at $1000.

It's just wrong...it may be supply and demand, but it's still wrong. FAS is basically saying "Yes we have them in stock, and we know you've been waiting 5 months for one, but we're not going to be able to sell you one at the price we agreed to, because we're selling it to this other guy for more...sorry...maybe you'll have more luck in 6 months when we have another shipment..."

cobbler, you know nothing about me or how much I make. I've been making six figures for over 20 years. I have a room full of high end equipment. (Mesa Boogie, Two-Rock, Friedman, Suhr, the list goes on and on) So don't judge me. It's not about a little extra $$. It's about a company treating its customer badly.

And yeah, the arrogance and condescension is strong with many of these posters.

LOL it's not arrogance, nor is it condescension. It's LIFE.

If people are that unhappy, they don't have to give FAS their money. Find your fix somewhere else. Getting on these forums and complaining isn't going to change anything. It is what it is.
 
Your analogy is flawed my friend. The MFC units ARE available now. They are being sold to BOTH the people that have been patiently waiting for months AND the people in the back of the line who are willing to pay the ridiculous price of $1000. What you failed to mention is that there are a limited number of units, and that many of the people that have been waiting in line (and yes, are legally entitled to one at that agreed upon price) aren't going to get one for another 6 months because of the people buying them at $1000.

It's just wrong...it may be supply and demand, but it's still wrong. FAS is basically saying "Yes we have them in stock, and we know you've been waiting 5 months for one, but we're not going to be able to sell you one at the price we agreed to, because we're selling it to this other guy for more...sorry...maybe you'll have more luck in 6 months when we have another shipment..."

cobbler, you know nothing about me or how much I make. I've been making six figures for over 20 years. I have a room full of high end equipment. (Mesa Boogie, Two-Rock, Friedman, Suhr, the list goes on and on) So don't judge me. It's not about a little extra $$. It's about a company treating its customer badly.

And yeah, the arrogance and condescension is strong with many of these posters.

Did you contact Fractal about this via support?
 
Did anybody ever stop to think that MAYBE, just MAYBE, and this is speculation based on some limited knowledge of how shopping carts work on the back end, but MAYBE this sales model has a little something to do with limitations to the storefront model. I mean, they might have to show stock available to all browsing the site so that those with a coupon are able to access the site and type in a code in the first place. They may not have the resources or capability to send out a private link for everyone with a coupon code to filter out those who don't. They only alternative they may have available is to raise the price up to a ridiculous level to discourage people from jumping ahead in line. Now, I'm not absolutely sure this is the way the system works, but it kind of makes sense to me.

Again, this is all just speculating a possible scenario. I have no idea how their store-front works, but I really don't think Fractal is trying to gouge anyone and profiteer off of the supply and demand scenario. Maybe if they set the price to $1999, there wouldn't be so many people willing to jump ahead in line and piss off those who are waiting by posting about it on a public forum.
 
Jeez, somebody just tell him what he wants to hear already so that he can be happy.

The price increase seems to have occurred in order to discourage from people buying direct so that people on the list could get there hands on one. So are you really just waiting to hear the same thing from Fractal? They already said it, but not in the words that you would like, should they repeat it just slightly differently in order to make you happy?

It seems like you already understand what is going on, but you just dont want to except it for whatever reason.

Ha! I like this response toolfanem! A perfectly acceptable reaction to my endless bantering. Heck, I am getting tired of myself! I am in a bit of a debating mood it is true.

But mrstrat or Ghengis' speculations or interpretations are just as valid as anyone elses in my view, and that is all I have read here so far, speculation and interpretation.

So yeah, I would like to hear from Fractal on the matter. Maybe if I keep beating on this they will chime in ; )
 
basically what Fractal is doing is saying to their customers " yes, we are going to honor your raincheck for the original price, but since their is a limited supply right we're going to take advantage of the fact that some people are willing to pay more and let them go first." It strikes me as an anti-customer approach, if you're gonna do a waitlist, the expectation from the people in line is that it's a line! ie, the people in the back don't get to go first even if they pay more money. Fractal needs to focus on getting a steady supply of these things, not getting people riled up with pricing games. They should just sell them on the side through ebay if they want to cash in on the extreme demand for these.
 
cobbler, you know nothing about me or how much I make. I've been making six figures for over 20 years. I have a room full of high end equipment. (Mesa Boogie, Two-Rock, Friedman, Suhr, the list goes on and on) So don't judge me. It's not about a little extra $$. It's about a company treating its customer badly.

I never once implied that I knew you nor was my post directed at you personally. I did not "judge" you. I am also glad you make good money and are able to afford the things you like in life. Congrats to you! My post was made to simply say this is a supply and demand capitalism 101 scenario. And it is whether you or me like it or not. Life often isn't fair and when demand exceeds supplies in a free capitalistic society the people with money often have opportunities and advantages over those less fortunate. It is what it is.

This is the way FAS has always done business and it had always been a source of disagreement. I cannot disagree any more with the "treating the customer badly comment". I see it just the opposite. The customers that are and have been in line still have their place and will get their units at a discounted price. Yes, discounted 100.00 below the regular price. Those who don't wish to wait for the discount and have the funds can purchase for 200.00 over the regular price and 300.00 over the discounted offering. How is that not taking care of the customers? The "customers" of FAS are not limited to those on the wait list.

In a couple months everyone will have their units and it will all be water under the bridge. Been there done that. And by the way, I was a person who was very low on the list for the Axe II release and within weeks of being sent the discount email. I chose, and I emphasize the word CHOSE to pay the extra 400.00 to get it instantly when they used the same approach then. I did so simply because it was more convenient and hassle free for me at the time and not so I could skip over anyone or hurt any other customer. Again, It's just supply and demand economics.

And regardless of viewpoints on this topic lets not forget two points of interest. One, FAS is a business. Why would they not want to maximize their profits if opportunities arise to do so? And two, FAS has a very well deserved reputation for treating their customers way above and beyond what most other companies offer.

If you don't agree with me that is fine too.
 
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What you failed to mention is that there are a limited number of units, and that many of the people that have been waiting in line (and yes, are legally entitled to one at that agreed upon price) aren't going to get one for another 6 months because of the people buying them at $1000.

Can you please show me documentation or facts that support this claim?
 
This is the way FAS has always done business and it had always been a source of disagreement.
And that disagreement surprise me every time. There's not a lot of evidence that this practice significantly extended wait times when they did it with Standards. There's not much indicating that it made a big difference in delaying purchases of AxeFX IIs. Not only should it not be surprising that FAS is doing this, the experience of the past three+ years doesn't seem to indicate that it has much effect on wait list times.

What does surprise me is the scarcity of people complaining about paying the premium shortly before the waitlist ended. Seems like there are a few folks who grouse about just about everything else FAS does.
 
I never once implied that I knew you nor was my post directed at you personally. I did not "judge" you. I am also glad you make good money and are able to afford the things you like in life. Congrats to you! My post was made to simply say this is a supply and demand capitalism 101 scenario. And it is whether you or me like it or not. Life often isn't fair and when demand exceeds supplies in a free capitalistic society the people with money often have opportunities and advantages over those less fortunate. It is what it is.

This is the way FAS has always done business and it had always been a source of disagreement. I cannot disagree any more with the "treating the customer badly comment". I see it just the opposite. The customers that are and have been in line still have their place and will get their units at a discounted price. Yes, discounted 100.00 below the regular price. Those who don't wish to wait for the discount and have the funds can purchase for 200.00 over the regular price and 300.00 over the discounted offering. How is that not taking care of the customers? The "customers" of FAS are not limited to those on the wait list.

In a couple months everyone will have their units and it will all be water under the bridge. Been there done that. And by the way, I was a person who was very low on the list for the Axe II release and within weeks of being sent the discount email. I chose, and I emphasize the word CHOSE to pay the extra 400.00 to get it instantly when they used the same approach then. I did so simply because it was more convenient and hassle free for me at the time and not so I could skip over anyone or hurt any other customer. Again, It's just supply and demand economics.

And regardless of viewpoints on this topic lets not forget two points of interest. One, FAS is a business. Why would they not want to maximize their profits if opportunities arise to do so? And two, FAS has a very well deserved reputation for treating their customers way above and beyond what most other companies offer.

If you don't agree with me that is fine too.

It was your comment "...then work harder and get a better paying job so that a little extra $ for less hassles doesn't impact your life so dramatically." that I felt was condescending. It seemed that your comment was directed at all of us that were upset about the waitlist situation.

At this point, it's all speculation on all of our parts. The next week will tell whether we were upset about nothing, or justifiably concerned. I don't know about you, but if I'm waiting in line and someone cuts in line, I get upset about it. I think it's just human nature. My concern is that there are going to be enough people wanting to buy the unit at $1000 that those of us further down on the wait list aren't going to get one.
 
Can you please show me documentation or facts that support this claim?

We've been waiting for a new shipment since December. (5 months) It wasn't a claim, but more of a concern that if they sell out again, it's going to be another 5 months before another shipment is available again.
 
It was your comment "...then work harder and get a better paying job so that a little extra $ for less hassles doesn't impact your life so dramatically." that I felt was condescending. It seemed that your comment was directed at all of us that were upset about the waitlist situation.

At this point, it's all speculation on all of our parts. The next week will tell whether we were upset about nothing, or justifiably concerned. I don't know about you, but if I'm waiting in line and someone cuts in line, I get upset about it. I think it's just human nature. My concern is that there are going to be enough people wanting to buy the unit at $1000 that those of us further down on the wait list aren't going to get one.

My comment was just what it says in its ENTIRITY. You conveniently left off the first part.

"If you find yourself easily getting upset about such things then work harder and get a better paying job so that a little extra $ for less hassles doesn't impact your life so dramatically."

which was a generalized solution that provides one options to my comment preceding that which was...

"If you have the money and don't mind spending 25% extra you can avoid the hassles that become inherent with lines and supply vs. demand issues."

It is life. You or I may not like it but that is how it is. You may be standing in line for a show for 2 days and persons of influence or fame are going to walk right up and be let in before you. Life is not fair. If anyone told you it is you have been lied to. I figure you have two choices. Bitch about it or do something about it.
 
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We've been waiting for a new shipment since December. (5 months) It wasn't a claim, but more of a concern that if they sell out again, it's going to be another 5 months before another shipment is available again.

We have to agree to disagree again. You didn't say "I am "concerned their might" be a limited number. You didn't state I am "concerned we could" be waiting another 5 months. What you said was.... "What you failed to mention is that there are a limited number of units, and that many of the people that have been waiting in line (and yes, are legally entitled to one at that agreed upon price) aren't going to get one for another 6 months because of the people buying them at $1000."

Nice try! :)

The bottom line is the amount of units there are available is not known to you, me or anyone other than FAS. The facts are that they chose to handle their business in the way they have and have done so in prior releases. Some may not like it and feel it is not fair and others may feel just the opposite. I suppose at that point you have a personal decision to make if you choose to whether do business with them or not. Making speculative comments as if they are fact is not going to change anything.
 
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In a couple months everyone will have their units and it will all be water under the bridge. Been there done that. And by the way, I was a person who was very low on the list for the Axe II release and within weeks of being sent the discount email. I chose, and I emphasize the word CHOSE to pay the extra 400.00 to get it instantly when they used the same approach then. I did so simply because it was more convenient and hassle free for me at the time and not so I could skip over anyone or hurt any other customer. Again, It's just supply and demand economics.

And regardless of viewpoints on this topic lets not forget two points of interest. One, FAS is a business. Why would they not want to maximize their profits if opportunities arise to do so? And two, FAS has a very well deserved reputation for treating their customers way above and beyond what most other companies offer.

If you don't agree with me that is fine too.

I agree!!!
 
Well fudge. I posted something and then deleted it because i failed to reply with quote. Though i had copied the text to again post but with the quote, i seem to have lost it.

My point? What i said still stands :)

Raze
 
No it is not economics 101, or any such thing.

The guys at fractal are very honest, straight up people, and I simply cannot believe that they would engage in dishonest, illegal business practices. I believe that you will be charged the amount that was explicitly promised that you would given as a member of the wait list at the time of purchase, and if you have a difficult time figuring out how to achieve that, simply email or call sales@fractalaudio.com, or, better yet, call the main number and enquire as to how to achieve it. They said that the wait list has first priority, and ALWAYS said that we would be served first, based on entry date to the wait list.

To do otherwise would be illegal, and I am not willing to believe that Fractal would engage in that sort of practice based on what I know about them as a company.

See the definition of bait and switch below:

Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also practiced in other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by merchants' advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods are not available, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher priced items ("switching").


The intention of the bait-and-switch is to encourage purchases of substituted goods, making consumers satisfied with the available stock offered, as an alternative to a disappointment or inconvenience of acquiring no goods (or bait) at all, and reckoning on a seemingly partial recovery of sunk costs expended trying to obtain the bait. It suggests that the seller will not show the original product or service advertised but instead will demonstrate a more expensive product or a similar product with a higher margin.
[edit]Legality

In the United States, courts have held that the purveyor using a bait-and-switch operation may be subject to a lawsuit by customers for false advertising, and can be sued for trademark infringement by competing manufacturers, retailers, and others who profit from the sale of the product used as bait. However, no cause of action will exist if the purveyor is capable of actually selling the goods advertised, but aggressively pushes a competing product.
Likewise, advertising a sale while intending to stock a limited amount of, and thereby sell out, a loss-leading item advertised is legal in the United States. The purveyor can escape liability if they make clear in their advertisements that quantities of items for which a sale is offered are limited, or by offering a rain check on sold-out items.
In England and Wales it is banned under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.[1] Breaking this law can result in a criminal prosecution, an unlimited fine and two years in jail.

Ugh let's try this again...

Dude, in no way is what fractal doing with its list either illegal or bait and switch. Unethical, perhaps, hardly illegal. What kills me is you actually posted the definition of b&s and still failed to apply it in context.

The list is a courtesy only. The current purchase option is in place because there are people who truly need it (I'm using this term loosely). I should know - I'm the guy who sold his MFC-101 for $1k a few weeks ago in the classifieds to someone who also ‘needed‘ it. In his case, he is a touring artist.

I'm confident that FAS knows its inventory, and any bumps because of someone buying at full price will, like FAS' window off opportunity, be short-lived.

Like VKC's comment about the second shipment already coming and going, the number of people talking out their arse (in keeping with the bollocks theme :)), is dizzying

Raze
 
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Marketing tactics are PART of what builds any company's reputation. Each potential consumer will make their own evaluations.
 
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