Metal Bass?

prometh

prometh

Power User
I just got my first bass. The only reason I got it was for song mixing, so I don't plan to get very technical with it. But, I'm really not sure how to go about using it for metal music.

I'm into more traditional metal, like Motorhead, Metallica, Pantera and Black Label Society.

Should I use a pick?
Should I use much distortion/overdrive?
Should I palm mute to match the riffs?
 
Heheh, cool, that video answered my question in about 5 seconds :)

Sound-wise, anyway.... did he just up the volume and rely on power tube distortion, or did he up the gain or mid?

And thanks regarding the palm muting
 
It really depends. You can try recording it DI and then duplicate the DI track and make the duplicate distorted with a plug in. You gotta make it distorted enough for you to not like it alone but you blend it with the original track and it gives you a pretty snappy bass tone.
Another thing I've tried is programming MIDI bass through a DAW since I have no bass. I can't speak for bass players but it sounds pretty good to me.
 
Yeah, I don't wanna mess around too much with MIDI and technical stuff like that. I've spent enough time with my guitar effects on the Axe-Fx. I just wanna record as quick as possible, so I bought a bass
 
it's metal, it's aggressive, and it ain't supposed to be pretty. If you don't play metal bass with that kind of an attitude, it just won't sound right whether regardless of what OD you put in front of it. I will say, though, that you can simulate this type of aggressive playing with some clever sound tweaking - for example, take a parallel split of the bass and ADD an Drive block, but roll off the low/low-mid mud in the EQ (or with a hi-pass filter in front of the Drive) so that the "grit" only is audible on the attack/presence frequencies of the bass sound. Mess with varying amounts of distortion to highlight just enough of that nastiness. This will help if you don't play HARD, and some guys don't like to play hard b/c it hurts, impedes good technique & speed, and all that other happy stuff that nice bass players are into.

But IMO, no substitute for just hitting the damn strings, and make sure the strings are new. Use SVT and 8x10 models, no mic. If it's too "loose" and sloppy b/c you aren't really a bassist, employ compression (during mixdown) to tighten up the sound.
 
prometh said:
Heheh, cool, that video answered my question in about 5 seconds :)

Sound-wise, anyway.... did he just up the volume and rely on power tube distortion, or did he up the gain or mid?

And thanks regarding the palm muting
Click to expand...

Gain!
 
well, to be honest, you can get an aggressive metal sound with fingers or pick, and I guess also with slapping. It's just as much about the "attitude" as it is the method or the tone you've got dialed in. No rules, I guess, so do what suits yourself and the music best as you see it.

Personally speaking, I tend to default to pick playing b/c sometimes I like the sound and added character of the "pick scrape" on the strings (not for everybody, and context is everything), and b/c I'm a bit more proficient at pick playing for speed than I am for finger styles. Again, just my personal preference.

But if the tempo of the song is more laid back and heavy, and simple bass lines will do, then there's nothing better than pumping with your fingers to get that fat punchy sound you've described. Experiment for a little while and see what works for you and what doesn't.
 
prometh said:
I just got my first bass. The only reason I got it was for song mixing, so I don't plan to get very technical with it. But, I'm really not sure how to go about using it for metal music.

I'm into more traditional metal, like Motorhead, Metallica, Pantera and Black Label Society.

Should I use a pick?
Should I use much distortion/overdrive?
Should I palm mute to match the riffs?
Click to expand...

i always use a pick as it gives a much more agressive sound to the bass.
distortion on bass is fussy, i wouldn't distort a bass directly.

i usually end up using two bass tracks.
first i record an "as clean as possible" bass track then make a copy of it.

the first one gets a low-pass or a big cut about 500hz.
i also compress the.....out of it.

the second track gets all bass frequencies cut.
on this track i apply some software distortion,
i like the lepou plugins for this very much.

so basically you end up with a "deep" and "clean" and a "high" and "distorted" bass track.
mit them up together et voila.

plam muting? never tired it, i always try to keep the bass tracks as simple as possible!

the most important thing is a good and well set up instrument with BRAND NEW strings on it.
usually i go with one set/song. pretty expensive but it's a MUST!

cheers
S.
 
Thanks for all the tips. Now I got some solid direction.

As far as gain goes, I was not able to get Lemmy's sound with an amp or drive block. I tried cutting the bass & treble, and boosting the mids, as well as maxing gain values. It just sounded fizzy, as Soultrash was saying. I guess it's just the character of Lemmy's Marshall, or is it still possible with an Ampeg?
 
Getting Lemmy's sound is one thing...and getting a good "generic" hard rock/metal sound is another. Lemmy's sound is defined in large part by how he plays as well as his Rickenbacker basses and Marshall rig. So YES, go for some of those Marshall amp/cab combinations. The sound is totally different (more mids) than the SVT/8x10 combo and you may find you like it better. There are just so many possibilities. You may want to record direct "dry", and then use the Axe-Fx to "re-amp" the sound so you can audition as many amp/cab combinations as possible.

Soultrash's suggestion is widely used in studios, where you mix a "pure" bass tone with a second (identical) channel which adds "coloration" or distortion. It works very well. The Tech 21 SansAmp Bass Driver is a common choice for that coloration, although you could just as easily use the Axe-Fx for that purpose.

As for the general characteristics of the 8x10 bass cabinet model, you are really at the mercy of the stock IR provided here. I've auditioned other 8x10 IRs that spanned the range from "mid-scoop" with lots of bottom/top, to the very opposite: lots of mids and rolled-off low/high end.

Keep trying!
 
Does the stock SVT IR not sound like the real thing? And, what about RedWirez bass cab IRs; is there a better mic formula with those?

Also, I've read about people choosing to skip cab models altogether with their bass guitars..
 
IMO it's not that the stock 8x10 doesn't sound like and 8x10 SVT, but that it is just one IR flavor of an 8x10 cabinet. I use it and it works fine for me. But there are just SO MANY mic/cabinet combinations out there to sift through, it really can be extremely time consuming.

I've not used the Redwirez IRs yet, but plan on getting them to try out. I HAVE used some of Cliff's IRs from this link:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/user-cabs-irs/16708-impulse-response-collection.html

As for going direct without cabinet sims, this is also a very valid method of getting your sound, especially if you like a really clean attack in the top end "tweeter" part of the spectrum. You can do an awful lot with compression and EQ, and perhaps just a hint of the tube pre. If you like Flea (RHCP), then this can be a good way to go, especially if you have active pickups in the bass. This is a much more modern sound, though. I think some of the players who skip the bass cabinet sims are plugging into a traditional bass cabinet, so they may not want the sims.

I experimented with a combination of both cabinet and non-cabinet signals in a parallel path and this is really flexible and allows you to get a very wide blend of sounds. Again, I'd suggest you take a crack at it recording a fully dry bass track, and then "re-amping" the sound using the Axe-Fx. Once the sound is back in the Axe-Fx, you can do a LOT of comparisons to see how stuff sits in the mix.
 
prometh said:
Does the stock SVT IR not sound like the real thing? And, what about RedWirez bass cab IRs; is there a better mic formula with those?

Also, I've read about people choosing to skip cab models altogether with their bass guitars..
Click to expand...

I found that the Redwirez SVT 8x10 sounds great, even with my dodgy mixes but it is
not mo-bettah enough than the stock 8x10 BASS to dedicate one of the 10 IR slots to it...

I like the 1x15 SRBASS cabinet too.

If I was using the Axe more for bass than I do at the moment I'd load up a few different SVT810
Redwirez recipes along with the GNX3K_RFLX1x18_48K.sys 18" IR that's floating around
and probably the HiwattSE4123 with a different recipe than the one I use for guitar.

No-cab is good too, just different good...
 
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