Message In A Bottle HARMONY?

slipperypick

slipperypick

Member
1. Just ordered my Axe FX II and am SUPER psyched!!!!
2. Been looking for an Andy Summers patch that includes the harmony on Message in a Bottle. I did a search on the forums and turned up a lot of folks talking about flanger and comp, but nothing about the harmony. So I'm left thinking one of two things are a possibility: Either its such an obvious harmony that any dope can figure it out (I've tried my Eventide PitchFactor and none of the scales sound right), OR I'm the only dude out there who has noticed the harmony on the track! And THAT can't be it...

So... For the Fractal Noob: Any thoughts?

I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!
 
I'm sure the main riff is double-tracked a fifth up, although I've never heard of Summers using a pitch shifter to recreate this live (more knowledgeable folks may correct me). When I set up my patch for this I ended up removing the Pitch block as it seemed to mush-up the tone somewhat. :/
 
I have something I wrote up for our other guitarist (he was playing block chords over it). Its a cool little counter melody. IIRC, the rhythm is slightly different isn't it?
Either way, when we decided to do the song I watched a bunch of live version. He does not try to recreate this live as far as I heard.
 
I was just working on this over the weekend as my band was learning Message on a Bottle. There definitely is a harmony - the thing is that some notes are harmonized differently at different points, so there's not an easy way to pull of the exact harmony, outside of switching the pitch block for each 3-note section, which didn't sound like fun. I might play with it more to see if I can find a compromise that sounds ok, but not sure about that.
 
Right it has 3rds, unisons, 2nds, 4ths, 7ths, 5ths, etc. not only that but in one place G# is in unison , while another place it is in 4ths, I think. The rhythm is the same. you wouldn't need to switch for every three note section, but you would need to switch at least three times with Global scales. It really doesn't seem worth it. Even if you get going, I'm going to guess it won't sound better than leaving it out.
 
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This is why I'm SOOO looking forward to getting my Axe FX II... The community support!
I know when I saw the Police in Denver (Javajunkie, were you there...?) a few years ago I noticed the harmony right away. The live DVD and CD they put out after that tour has the harmony as well.
So the mystery remains... Did he have a roadie doing all his switching on the fly, did he play along with a backing track (doesn't sound like it to me), or does Mr. Summers have a genius for the harmonizer effect...?
Thanks so much for the quick feedback, all!!!
 
javajunkie said:
Right it has 3rds, unisons, 2nds, 4ths, 7ths, 5ths, etc. not only that but in one place G# is in unison , while another place it is in 4ths, I think. The rhythm is the same. you wouldn't need to switch for every three note section, but you would need to switch at least three times with Global scales. It really doesn't seem worth it. Even if you get going, I'm going to guess it won't sound better than leaving it out.
Click to expand...

I agree - as much as it would be cool to pull off, I don't think it would be worth the effort or stress when playing it live to try to make it work. The reality is you'd really only be doing it for yourself - you'll be the only one in the crowd that even notices. That said, if you come up with something cool, let us know :).
 
slipperypick said:
This is why I'm SOOO looking forward to getting my Axe FX II... The community support!
I know when I saw the Police in Denver (Javajunkie, were you there...?) a few years ago I noticed the harmony right away. The live DVD and CD they put out after that tour has the harmony as well.
So the mystery remains... Did he have a roadie doing all his switching on the fly, did he play along with a backing track (doesn't sound like it to me), or does Mr. Summers have a genius for the harmonizer effect...?
Thanks so much for the quick feedback, all!!!
Click to expand...

the Police have been playing over a click track that contained some of these 'extras'
a lot of bands do this sort of thing...
 
Sounds involved but I got an idea as a result. It would be slick if the sequencer could control a pitch block with the invterval for a repeating pattern like this - maybe the envelope follower could act as the clock(??)
 
There is a preset in Bank A, 123 called Andy's Message that might be worth trying. But here for those wanting to create the harmony I have written out the main part, the second bar is slightly different just prior to going into the chorus. But this should get you close.

message.JPG

The repeat says 8 times but just ignore that it is just what I put into the editor while I wrote it out.

It can be seen that the main part is followed by a guitar a third higher in C#minor, but at times it is a fifth higher. It is all diatonic, but the harmony interval is not constant.
 
I believe the below is the actual harmony from the recording. Andy teaches it to John Mayer in one of the Police videos this way:


---
---
--11
-9-
7--
---

---
---
--8
-6-
4--
---

---
---
--9
-7-
6--
---

---
---
--8-9
-6-
4--
---
 
CodePoet said:
I believe the below is the actual harmony from the recording. Andy teaches it to John Mayer in one of the Police videos this way:


---
---
--11
-9-
7--
---

---
---
--8
-6-
4--
---

---
---
--9
-7-
6--
---

---
---
--8-9
-6-
4--
---
Click to expand...

That is a way to do it, but I dont think that is the way its recorded. for example, the 4th note in the harmony is a C# but it is an octave higher.
 
I'm brushing up on my Andy...

I missed this thread back in the day.

Stratmania is exactly right: it's diatonic 3rds for the first three chords and parallel 5ths for the last one.

Use the two-voice intelligent pitch shifter set for E major.
Voice 1 +3
Voice 2 +5

Use a footswitch to switch between:
• voice 1 full up, voice 2 full down
• voice 1 full down, voice 2 full up

You've got to play it more cleanly with less legato overlap than the record to get that dim. 5 on theF# of the A chord to track cleanly.

I use two amps. The Pitch block is 100% wet in front of one of them. Don't forget to add healthy chorus and compression.

Have fun!
 
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Admin M@ said:
I'm brushing up on my Andy...

I missed this thread back in the day.

Stratmania is exactly right: it's diatonic 3rds for the first three chords and parallel 5ths for the last one.

Use the two-voice intelligent pitch shifter set for E major.
Voice 1 +3
Voice 2 +5

Use a footswitch to switch between:
• voice 1 full up, voice 2 full down
• voice 1 full down, voice 2 full up

You've got to play it more cleanly with less legato overlap than the record to get that dim. 5 on theF# of the A chord to track cleanly.

I use two amps. The Pitch block is 100% wet in front of one of them. Don't forget to add healthy chorus and compression.

Have fun!
Click to expand...

A short video demoing this would be soooooo cool. :)
 
Sorry, it is difficult for me to do video, but here's a preset for you:

Axe-Change - Download Preset - Message in a Footswitch - by Admin M@
It uses EXT1 to change the harmony from 3rds to 5ths. I used a spring-loaded Boss Footswitch. I'd simply step down on it upon playing the low F#, and release it when the phrase starts again on C#.

And here's a little recording. I played it with the harmony a little hot so you can pick it out.


One thing you'll notice is that to create the discrete harmony, the notes need to be played as more of a line, with less overlapping sustain. This changes the feel a bit, but I hope you'll agree it's cool to finally hear this harmony live!
 
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Admin M@ said:
Sorry, it is difficult for me to do video, but here's a preset for you:

Axe-Change - Download Preset - Message in a Footswitch - by Admin M@
It uses EXT1 to change the harmony from 3rds to 5ths. I used a spring-loaded Boss Footswitch. I'd simply step down on it upon playing the low F#, and release it when the phrase starts again on C#.

And here's a little recording. I played it with the harmony a little hot so you can pick it out.


One thing you'll notice is that to create the discrete harmony, the notes need to be played as more of a line, with less overlapping sustain. This changes the feel a bit, but I hope you'll agree it's cool to finally hear this harmony live!
Click to expand...



All right! How do you press the Like button twice? Fabulous Matt!
 
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