Mesa Overload

Hey,

So I was thinking about getting a Mesa cab, and it seems we have captures by
- ML Cab Pack 13
- Ownhammer 4x12 Recto
- York Bipolar Recto

Has anyone any perspective on the differences between the packs? Maybe even about the difference in the producers' typical philosophies or approaches in general?
 
Hey,

So I was thinking about getting a Mesa cab, and it seems we have captures by
- ML Cab Pack 13
- Ownhammer 4x12 Recto
- York Bipolar Recto

Has anyone any perspective on the differences between the packs? Maybe even about the difference in the producers' typical philosophies or approaches in general?
I have OH and ML packs, they both make great products.

I have cab pack 13 and the OH HHC, which includes 3 different speakers in a mesa 4x12.
They are all great, I think you'll find what you need in any of the packs listed.

I also have an early York pack (OH Justin York) which is also great quality, but I prefer the mixers in the more recent releases.

Flip a coin, pick a pack and get back to playing. You'll be happy with any/all of the 3 you mentioned.
 
Thanks for all the input guys. I guess one part of the "user experience" of buying cabs confuses me - "where the hell do I start?". I'm now aware of 4 producers, plus of course the rumoured remake of "the site's most popular cab pack, cab pack 13". So would anyone be able to share with me how they choose a new cab pack?

Like, how do these differ? I mean, I'm sure there are differences in the particular choices of speaker, but I couldn't tell the difference now and I wonder how many years before I can spot the difference between a greenback and a creamback, and think "oh, i'll get the pack with the creambacks"...

I think in many ways I'm trying to approach a highly subjective field too analytically, but then the only approaches I'm aware of are
1) "none of the producers are dummies - just pick one and I'm sure you'll get something out of it" and
2) buy 'em all

I guess I also suffer from choice overload (such a first world problem!) Anyways, this isn't meant to be a rant, just to see if there are different perspectives out there.

Update: I just took the time to go through Ragdoll's video. Actually (3) Listen to a youtube video of a demo going through them all is a pretty good way to find out. All we might need for some consistency is someone who religiously reviews all cab packs to get a good comparison. Anyways, thanks Ragdoll! Any other ideas though would be appreciated.
 
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So I was thinking about getting a Mesa cab, and it seems we have captures by
- ML Cab Pack 13
- Ownhammer 4x12 Recto
I have these two as well as some other Mesa cab packs. If I had to pick just one, I'd go with the new OwnHammer Player's Pack. It suits me the best and it's easy to get great results.

Of course the ML pack 13 you can hear on Periphery albums and Mikko has said that he is working on another Mesa pack with Misha. Can't go wrong there either.

I guess listen to some samples and try to determine which style suits you best.
 
I'm not going to try to sell you on my pack, but I'll share my philosophy with you. "Accuracy is everything." I don't like tricks or gimmicks. I don't think IR's should be revolutionary. I think they should be true to the cabinets they represent...character and all. My stuff sounds like the actual cabinets I shot. Plain and simple.

If you like a more processed tone, you won't like what I do. If you want something that's raw and authentic to the real world counterpart, I think you'll enjoy what I do.

We all have our own preferences, and there's no absolute right answer to what's best. You just have to try stuff and see what sounds the best for what you like. Cab Packs are like guitars. You gotta play a bunch until one feels like home. When you find it, Cab Packs are worth their weight in gold.

Good luck, and have in exploring!
 
Ok here's another neutral post from someone who doesn't sell IR packs :)

In my experience you'll have to go through them all and then find out which one you like most. That's just how it is! I bought MANY IR packs in the last years. Most of them are obsolete for me now, because now I know that for me they don't work as good as others.

What's important to know about Mesa cabs is the speakers. Simply knowing "There's a V30 in there." doesn't tell you anything. Is it a modern V30 built in China or is it an older V30 built in the UK? BIG difference!!!!!

What's also important is to have a wide variety of mics! Don't underestimate the influence of mics for the sound!!! So compare the packs in that regard aswell.

Another thing would be the total amount of single mic IRs. The more, the better, because you get a greater variety of sounds, hence a bigger chance to find what you are looking for.

And of course the price. If you get much for little money, go for it!

About the differences between the manufacturers: Off your list I honestly only know Ownhammer's IR packs and I also know the Valhallir IR packs. So I'm not of big help here... But reading Justin York's post I can tell you that this is the way to go! Valhallir also go after this philosophy, ML too afaik, but at least Ownhammer doesn't. Ownhammer's IR packs have a different quality. He is very consistent and his methodology is very unique. But there's not much you can do if you don't like his mixes and different cabinets and speakers sound too similar imho. With Justin's, Valhallir's and ML's IRs you'll have to do more by yourself (find single mic IRs you like, mix them together if necessary etc) but there's a bigger chance to find exactly what you are looking for, to find YOUR sound. Don't get me wrong, Ownhammer's mixes are great, but at least for me they aren't amazing, which is what I'm looking for!

Again, this is MY experience and I'm a big fan of Valhallir. In my experience they do everything right. Your mileage may vary!
 
IR producer here! You've been warned. :D

Every physical 4x12 Mesa cab sounds a little different. I've had four in my studio this year. Here's a clip I posted before. I didn't mention it then but these are all 4x12 Mesa cabs and they all sound different:



The new pack that I'm working on with Misha was chosen because it was the meanest and most metal sounding scooped Mesa cab out of the bunch. We wanted to go full on brutal djent with this one.

So even if I did a pack out of all four I would end up with four different sounding packs. That's just how it is. I'm not sure what the difference would be if different IR producers shot the same exact cabinet. Would we agree on the mic positioning etc? Would we agree on the capture methods? I would say that it all comes down to mic placement. Everything else you can have an opinion on but will only affect the IR maybe 5%. Mic positioning will be the majority of the tone.

Like @York Audio mentioned I've also always done everything 100% raw. The process of shooting IR's includes about a dozen different gimmicks and processes for all of us so there's no "one correct way of doing things" but all that I do is to ensure that I have the most authentic capture. Nothing is there to "make the IR's sound better than the cab actually does". If you counter this kind of IR marketing, please look away. We're dealing with digital modelers so to make everything sound as real as possible keep things as raw as possible.

I drive my cabs with 100w tube amps and I drive them loud which might be one of the things that separates me from some of the other IR producers. Marshall cabs are driven by Marshall amps... Mesa cabs by Mesa amps etc. Even I am not sure if it makes a huge difference but I want to make sure that the cabs are "in their natural environment".

IR producers have different approaches and that is IMO one of the best parts about having different IR producers. Many IR producers allow you to virtually mic up the cabinet in post and give you different brightnesses. This is not my approach. I feel like my job as an IR producer is to give you the mic position that you "should be using". I feel like this is my job. I have a microphone robot... hell you can buy microphone robots these days so you don't have to build one like I did. If I wanted to, I could systematically shoot all available mic positions on a 4x12 cabinet. We would end up with thousands of IR's and... people would be confused and asking for the best positions to use, so I'm saving everyone's time and giving you the best positions. I usually have around 16 mic positions per mic per cab and even that is too much for most people. That's 16 mic positions hand picked from around 200-400 mic positions depending on the mic. These 16 positions are not a systematic brightness sweep. A fundamental part of my approach is that you shouldn't use mic positioning as a presence knob. You have a presence knob on the amp so use it for that. This is probably one of the biggest things that separates ML Sound Lab from most IR producers.

@keymaker posted an OH vs ML comparison at one point and here's the Mesa comparison:



I like this comparison because it's unclear even to me if the differences are because of the cabinet or our approaches. I like mine better; I think mine is more pleasant in the highs and is tighter in comparison. You can hear the tightness especially in the ending riff. But I'm 100% sure Kevin likes his better because it's growlier and more aggressive. That's the beauty of having different IR producers. We all have different tastes and approaches and I think we should just celebrate the fact that IT IS SUPER EASY TO CREATE PROFESSIONAL SOUNDING GUITAR TONES THESE DAYS. Man... 15 years ago when I recorded my band's album through a Boss GT-6 this would've been a dream come true. :D
 
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Also IR-producer here:

Like axifist told before, it's also very important, which type of V30 is used. The Chinese V30s sound very thin and harsh (IMHO). It's not about a worse build quality. Celestion just changed the design and voicing of these speaker type 4 times. And IMHO to the worse. (Which is one of the reasons, why Steven Fryette, who LOVED the old V30s (especially the T4335s UK- 70Watt Mesa OEMs) doesn't use them anymore.
We have tested a view Mesas last year. And they just can't come up with the old ones. That's why we waited so long for the "right" ones to get into our hands.
IR-producers seem to have a lot of fun and a faster procedure nowadays by capturing cabs by using mic-robots.

We don't care. Every IR from Valhallir.at is sweet-spot-checked by "hand" and with our "Objective sweet spot method", which also means, that the only thing that would keep them away from sounding great is a shitty speaker/cab. If you don't find your fave by checking the 3 to 5 different "flavours"....this aint just not YOUR type of cab. And there are lots of shitty cabs out there.
 
Yeah, I have. And they're clearly marked "made in UK", just like the Neo Creams

This one is a December 22, 2009, from a horizontal Rectifier 2x12. My 2013 vertical 2x12s have the same labels.

V3-1.jpg
.
 
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You're moving the goalposts. They're assembled in the UK, and they have a production facility - contrary to your statements.

The source of the components is a completely different issue and a diversion. Are Mesa amps not produced in the US, because the resistors and capacitors are made in Asia?
 
Yeah, none of the Mesa cabs that I shoot have Chinese speakers in them. Still I wouldn't say that Chinese V30s sound bad since tone is very subjective in the end. The Chinese V30 is still the basis for most guitar tones out there. They're not "the Mesa sound" IMO and I definitely prefer the original Mesa V30s as well, but there's no denying that f.ex. a Diezel 4x12 with the Chinese V30s doesn't sound ridiculously good. Just check this clip by Ehsan Imani:



About robots and all that. It's become an integral part of my IR shoot process. 1) Hearing the mic signal so clearly in a nice control room while 2) moving the microphone micromillimeters at a time 3) in a live room designed to resonate correctly and 4) being able to fine tune the mic position without having to run between the two rooms to check the sound quality... there's no way I could do what I do without it to be honest. I've noticed that I find around 5-7 sweet spots on speakers when back in the day when I did things by hand I usually settled on 3-4 sweet spots. Also it removes the element of placing the mics with your eyes where "people recommend you place your mics".
 
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