Mesa Mark IV and VP4 question. Does it change the feel at all?

Cem

Cem

Experienced
So, after 12 years of professionally playing (with Fractal units), I had taken a break from playing guitar / being a musician for almost a year and half and sold most of my gear.

A couple weeks ago my love rekindled the same way it all started for me, just loving vintage Petrucci a lot. Started playing again, but didn't get very excited anymore by playing with studio monitors / FRFRs. Ended up getting myself a newly serviced Mesa Mark IV. And I am properly in love with the amp. Running it with a 2x12 closed back Bogner cab and it sounds spectacular.

So, since I love the amp ( I haven't had a proper amp like this since 2015 or so), I decided to pull the plug on an FX8 that showed up used in local market, and I am properly disappointed. Because it actually changes the feel of the amp when going into the input of the amp. I tested very different things. Found some topics as well from FX8 around 2016-2017, and I seem not to be alone in this. The instantness of the response coming from going directly into a mark IV as well some really high mids seem to disappear when fx8 is in between. (in True bypass mode and NO effects in the chain, good quality cables, not long runs)

I am so in love with the feel and sound of this amp, I don't want to alter that. So for this purpose Fx8 seem to have failed me.

I have an FM3 on borrow, and unfortunately Fm3 also failed on this task of actually being completely transparent and keeping the dynamics of the Mark IV intact. But since FM3 wasn't designed to do this, I am not commenting on that. And I love an FM3 for what its designed to do.

So all this A/B testing led me towards VP4. 4 effects are kinda limiting for me so I hadn't been interested in this that much earlier. But most of the time I can live with 4 fx.

Compressor and Drive Pre.
Chorus and Delay Post.

Would be a common chain at least for what I am recently doing.


But is VP4 actually completely transparent and keeps your amp's response when going direct? Because there are many people that doesn't apparently hear and feel this difference on FX8, but it's definitely there. I have sensitive ears because of my work (Recording and mixing engineer), and looking for input from other sensitive ear VP4 users. I would need to buy VP4 brand new since it's too new to show up in used markets. Don't wanna take the jump on it without hearing about the transparency.
 
I also notice my Axe II and FM3 changing the dynamics when using with my tube gear. A lot of people dont notice it, but I definitely notice it feels less punchy and dynamic, even if the frequency response is not really different. People think I am crazy online, but it annoys me to the point where it makes it less exciting to play.

I have considered a VP4, but thinking it will have the same issue. If I got one, I would probably run it with an RJM Micro Line Mixer.

I generally just use my Axe in the loop with a parallel mixer. That always keeps the tone analog and never digitizes it 100%. I just dont use digital units before the amp input because I know anything with an A/D/A conversion will mess with the feel.
 
I also have mark iv...mesa in general dislike something digital in front...i have axe fx ii and iii but i use only in the loadbox send return not before...the best thing that works for both due to its separate path and analog drives is my lexicon mpx g2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cem
Fab8040 said:
I also have mark iv...mesa in general dislike something digital in front...i have axe fx ii and iii but i use only in the loadbox send return not before...the best thing that works for both due to its separate path and analog drives is my lexicon mpx g2.
Click to expand...
interesting! Never thought it would be maybe Mesa that is picky about what is connected in front of it.

Because tbh, when fx8 is in the loop only and running a delay and the block bypassed, I don’t get the same feel change…
 
Cem said:
interesting! Never thought it would be maybe Mesa that is picky about what is connected in front of it.

Because tbh, when fx8 is in the loop only and running a delay and the block bypassed, I don’t get the same feel change…
Click to expand...
My friend also has mark v and eventide h90 and it is unusable in front...dont know why but old stuff seems work best with...old stuff..
 
Fab8040 said:
My friend also has mark v and eventide h90 and it is unusable in front...dont know why but old stuff seems work best with...old stuff..
Click to expand...
But is this an Input Impedance type of thing that mesa is very picky about or what? I don't have another amp at home to test Fx8 in the front to compare. But when I have a tube screamer in the front of the Mark IV for example absolutely no change in the feel :D
 
Cem said:
But is this an Input Impedance type of thing that mesa is very picky about or what? I don't have another amp at home to test Fx8 in the front to compare. But when I have a tube screamer in the front of the Mark IV for example absolutely no change in the feel
Click to expand...
I ve no tech specs to add for this behaviour...tube screamer is analog you dont have ad/da conversion.. everything analog will works well
 
Fab8040 said:
I ve no tech specs to add for this behaviour...tube screamer is analog you dont have ad/da conversion.. everything analog will works well
Click to expand...
Yeah but, if it was the ad/da conversion that was making the feel change; fx8 has a True Bypass, that actually physically sends the input to output according to the manual. Which means we are skipping the ad/da…

It’s still changing the feel. How about that? :O
 
Cem said:
Yeah but, if it was the ad/da conversion that was making the feel change; fx8 has a True Bypass, that actually physically sends the input to output according to the manual. Which means we are skipping the ad/da…

It’s still changing the feel. How about that? :O
Click to expand...
Doesn't really make sense.
Of course that goes for everything we don't understand, but it really doesn't.
 
Cem said:
Yeah but, if it was the ad/da conversion that was making the feel change; fx8 has a True Bypass, that actually physically sends the input to output according to the manual. Which means we are skipping the ad/da…

It’s still changing the feel. How about that? :O
Click to expand...
Honestly i dont know
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cem
Cem said:
Yeah but, if it was the ad/da conversion that was making the feel change; fx8 has a True Bypass, that actually physically sends the input to output according to the manual. Which means we are skipping the ad/da…

It’s still changing the feel. How about that? :O
Click to expand...

The FX8 manual says the true bypass is buffered, so that means it is running your guitar through an extra buffer. That can change the feel of your guitar.


Relay-based buffered True Bypass gives the FX8 a much sought-after capability in the world of effects
processors. By physically switching A/D and D/A conversion out of the signal path, True Bypass gives you
the opportunity to make comparisons, check gain settings, or just enjoy your amp in its bare-naked glory.
In True Bypass Mode, signal is routed directly from the INPUTS to the OUTPUTS with no DSP conversion or
processing of any kind. Effect tails STOP. Pad, Headroom, and Level settings on all inputs and outputs are
bypassed. NO control on the FX8 has any effect.
The relays are fast and quiet, and True Bypass can be used on stage with no nasty “pop” or “thump.”
 
I can’t speak for the Mark IV itself, but I do have a Mark III and a Mark VII and I have some thoughts. First off, if you’re running effects in front and behind, you’re going to have to adjust to some variances in the amp. It depends on what you’re trying to do and what your sensitivities are. If you’re finding the FX8 is changing the tone and feel of the amp, I can’t see how the VP4 is going to be better for you.

I personally use an amplifier in one of two ways. If I’m recording, it’s direct into the amp, to the load box or miked cab, and we record. There is nothing in the FX loop ever when recording. If I’m talking my home practice rig or a live rig, I don’t care about the purity of the amp as I look at the amp as the core of the sound, but I understand there is going to be some variance with effects I add in front or behind. If you’re running any effects unit with your amp, you have to be ok with this. I can agree I too did not like the FM3 in 4CM, it took something out of the tone of my amp.

The VP4, FM9, and Axe FX II and Axe FX III though are the best I’ve found for transparency, but you are still running at least one AD/DA converter if you’re running any of these in the FX loop of your amp, and two AD/DA converters if you’re running 4CM. Again, the Fractal converters are arguably the best in the business and it’s the reason why the Petrucci and Vai’s of the world use them with their hybrid analog/digital guitar rigs.

The only way around this is to run digital FX only in the FX loop and only with a line mixer, that way your pure tone of the amp is always there for you and you can blend in effects to your desired amount. This sounds like where you want to go as you’re finding the FX loop usage to be detrimental to your tone or feel.
 
Last edited:
desertdweller said:
I can’t speak for the Mark IV itself, but I do have a Mark III and a Mark VII and I have some thoughts. First off, if you’re running effects in front and behind, you’re going to have to adjust to some variances in the amp. It depends on what you’re trying to do and what your sensitivities are. If you’re finding the FX8 is changing the tone and feel of the amp, I can’t see how the VP4 is going to be better for you.

I personally use an amplifier in one of two ways. If I’m recording, it’s direct into the amp, to the load box or miked cab, and we record. There is nothing in the FX loop ever when recording. If I’m talking my home practice rig or a live rig, I don’t care about the purity of the amp as I look at the amp as the core of the sound, but I understand there is going to be some variance with effects I add in front or behind. If you’re running any effects unit with your amp, you have to be ok with this. I can agree I too did not like the FM3 in 4CM, it took something out of the tone of my amp.

The VP4, FM9, and Axe FX II and Axe FX III though are the best I’ve found for transparency, but you are still running at least one AD/DA converter if you’re running any of these in the FX loop of your amp, and two AD/DA converters if you’re running 4CM. Again, the Fractal converters are arguably the best in the business and it’s the reason why the Petrucci and Vai’s of the world use them with their hybrid analog/digital guitar rigs.

The only way around this is to run digital FX only in the FX loop and only with a line mixer, that way your pure tone of the amp is always there for you and you can blend in effects to your desired amount. This sounds like where you want to go as you’re finding the FX loop usage to be detrimental to your tone or feel.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input.

I completely agree with you on what you are describing.

I just want to mention that the issue is only in the front of the amp. No issues on FX loop.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom