Matrix = sterile for me... need a tube power amp? Help !

Same feeling here , after plugging the axe into the power section of a dual rec , the sound came alive ! The tubes added something extra that no eq can replicate ... Returning to the matrix the preset was just loud again without the sparkles ...

Raf

Ps : i didn't even realize I missed that extra until I heared it .
 
MNG said:
What surprises me is why no one seems to be trying out the Retro Channel power amps, especially now they are only $699.

They are heavier than the Matrix by a fair bit - the Matrix is incredibly light and I can appreciate why people like that - but the Retro is lighter than most tube power amps and, for me, the Axe II and Retro combination actually does finally replace my amps. I have a Mesa MkV and a Marshall YJM, which is a tricked up Plexi Super Lead, and rarely play them any more since getting the Retro. I can get what they give me with so much more control now.

Just curious as to why so few folk on here seem inclined to try them out.
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I've been playing my Axe with a Retro for a awhile and its been great but my only complaint is the weight. I had to put it in its own rack to make the load easier to deal with going up stairs and what not. I'm considering selling it and getting a 1U matrix 1000GT but we'll see. I do like the features it has when using guitar cabs.
 
Another thing worth mentioning is that the extra "oomph" you hear standing next to a cab using a valve power amp barely translates to a FOH (if at all). Once your ears adjust to using a Gt800FX I find it is a cleaner on stage sound.
 
supersonic said:
Another thing worth mentioning is that the extra "oomph" you hear standing next to a cab using a valve power amp barely translates to a FOH (if at all). Once your ears adjust to using a Gt800FX I find it is a cleaner on stage sound.
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Indeed it does , thats why imho playing through a decent pa system , even a zoom or a digitech rp355 or so will sound awesome too , once mic and pa poweramps , speakers are involved it will mask your own sound drastic! If its in the hands of the pa guys it doesn't matter what your playing over that much ! And straight to pa with an kind of modeller would give awesome results , not only the high end stuff !

Raf
 
I disagree about the extra umph thing...
(granted I own Retro Channel) but this is an issue.
We voiced our amp to sound, and act like a big tube amp for a reason.

Some time ago I saw a Pro player onstage using his Fractal on the same stage as another pro using a Marshall and a 4-12.
It was a big room, but that whole Analog sound of a big amp pushing a real guitar cab with a mic was the difference between a nat and a gorilla in the front of house.

Our power amp is not flat... nothing that sounds like guitar amp ever is, but if you want to push your Fractal more towards Tube driven reality and you want to use a guitar cabinet instead of some monitor or PA box then our thing works really well.

If you intend to run direct or you want to drive a full range cabinet then other solutions are certainly better options.
 
Ps : i didn't even realize I missed that extra until I heared it .[/QUOTE]

Same here. I tried and used the Matrix for 9 months and thouhgt I loved it. But going back to my Engl and the Axe FX just as an effects unit hooked up in 4cm I realised this is so much better. Might be different to other people but don't fool yourselves. I did an AB test during band rehearsel and only then I realized what I have been missing....
 
Not sure who is being fooled.

IMO a good quality tube amp will always sound and feel better "live" than the modeling system trying to copy/reproduce it.

End of story.

With your setup -- you are just running the Axe as a high end multi-effects box with your rig.

I used the Eventide Eclipse for many years with my Bludotone rigs in the same way.

Nothing wrong with that --- it sounds killer!

coosvandorsten said:
Ps : i didn't even realize I missed that extra until I heared it

Same here. I tried and used the Matrix for 9 months and thouhgt I loved it. But going back to my Engl and the Axe FX just as an effects unit hooked up in 4cm I realised this is so much better. Might be different to other people but don't fool yourselves. I did an AB test during band rehearsel and only then I realized what I have been missing....
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Man, these discussions seem like an endless loop. I agree that, using the same settings, a tube power amp can sound much fuller. I also agree that, with the proper adjustments to the Axe Fx power amp sim parameters, and given a SS power amp up to the task (IMO, 1000w), that difference can be all but eliminated. The drawbacks I found to using tube power amps was the sensitivity to input levels. As you turn the Axe Fx level up, you hit the input stage of the tube amp harder. At higher volumes, I could hear the input stages of the tube amps begin to distort (like hitting a tube amp with a tube screamer). This may sound good tonally, but it is also adding an affect to the Axe modeling (which I did not want). It just takes time, experimentation, and the right SS power amp, but you can get there.
 
axel said:
Man, these discussions seem like an endless loop. I agree that, using the same settings, a tube power amp can sound much fuller. I also agree that, with the proper adjustments to the Axe Fx power amp sim parameters, and given a SS power amp up to the task (IMO, 1000w), that difference can be all but eliminated. The drawbacks I found to using tube power amps was the sensitivity to input levels. As you turn the Axe Fx level up, you hit the input stage of the tube amp harder. At higher volumes, I could hear the input stages of the tube amps begin to distort (like hitting a tube amp with a tube screamer). This may sound good tonally, but it is also adding an affect to the Axe modeling (which I did not want). It just takes time, experimentation, and the right SS power amp, but you can get there.
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I don't think it is an endless loop. If people get even an ounce of help with making their tone better, then really these discussions are beneficial to everyone. The only thing I would say is people need to think about what it is they are discussing and if it makes sense. The whole "tube versus solid state" discussions on a Fractal or Kemper forum makes no sense to me but just my opinion. I got an Axe-FX II to simplify my rig, not to try to sound better than a tube amp. An Axe-FX II will never sound better than tubes because nothing beats the real thing. I'm sure a tube power amp sounds killer with the Axe-FX II but it is going to be heavier and you'll have to eventually change the tubes, bias the tubes, etc. I got an Axe-FX II to get away from that. The Matrix sounds awesome and I guess I'm enjoying what it does on it's own, without comparing it to other power amp.
 
romanianreaper said:
I don't think it is an endless loop. If people get even an ounce of help with making their tone better, then really these discussions are beneficial to everyone. The only thing I would say is people need to think about what it is they are discussing and if it makes sense. The whole "tube versus solid state" discussions on a Fractal or Kemper forum makes no sense to me but just my opinion. I got an Axe-FX II to simplify my rig, not to try to sound better than a tube amp. An Axe-FX II will never sound better than tubes because nothing beats the real thing. I'm sure a tube power amp sounds killer with the Axe-FX II but it is going to be heavier and you'll have to eventually change the tubes, bias the tubes, etc. I got an Axe-FX II to get away from that. The Matrix sounds awesome and I guess I'm enjoying what it does on it's own, without comparing it to other power amp.
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Just to clarify, never said the discussions were of no value and couldn't be beneficial. Was referring to the SS vs. Tube circle (loop).;)
 
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Hey talking about dialing the power amp section to perfection; how do you guys do it? I want to learn how to get MAXIMUM out of the power amp simulation a i use a SS power amp.

Hope you guys have some centzz
 
Raf_666 said:
Same feeling here , after plugging the axe into the power section of a dual rec , the sound came alive ! The tubes added something extra that no eq can replicate ... Returning to the matrix the preset was just loud again without the sparkles ...

Raf

Ps : i didn't even realize I missed that extra until I heared it .
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Hello,

I would just like to say that I couldn't agree more with Raf_666.

I bought a matrix 1000 and returned it after 10 days or so asking for a refund. I use a mesa 20/20 in my rig. At low volumes things were not to bad but at band volume levels the matrix could not compete. The mesa has more bounce and ring etc.

Regards Dan
 
I've tried Carvin DCMLs, Matrix, Mesa 2:90 and VHT 2/90/2. All of them were good enought to get the job done, but there's something about the feel of a tube amp that I like just a little bit more. The Mesa needs to really be run with poweramp sims off, it has a lot of boogie-ness going on. The VHT is neutral enough that you can run it with poweramp sims on which is why I like the VHT best.
 
I use an Engl E840/50 when I run the Axe-Fx II through guitar cabs, power amp sims off. Amazing!
 
moab said:
I use an Engl E840/50 when I run the Axe-Fx II through guitar cabs, power amp sims off. Amazing!
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ENGL E850/100 here, used on stage for two guitars. It's a tube amp yet it has tons of clean headroom so it's the best of both worlds with the Axe, IMO.
 
Playing the AXE live is definitely a different feel than playing tube amps through guitar cabs yes. Personally, I don't understand the desire to go through traditional cabs--they are heavy and have terrible stage dispersion--esp when there are so many great IR options out there. Bottom line is that running a good AXE signal direct to FOH results in a more consistent and overall 'better' experience for the audience.

I do very little if any recording so if I didn't play out and I didn't have volume restrictions at home I would always play my tube amps--there is a reason Fractal spends so much time and effort modeling them. But on stage the band and the audience benefits from going digital--even a doofus soundguy can get great results, no microphonic tubes at the worst times, no beam-y guitar cabs blowing one section of the crowd away while the rest can't hear... it really boils down to how you are trying to use the tool and what you are trying to accomplish.
 
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The job description of a power amp is to amplify the sound, adding character, thump or whatever can just as easily be viewed as a negative attribute.

You need to get your presets right, then use a neutral power amp if you wish for the FOH to be identical to what you are hearing on stage. By coloring your output with a power amp, your avoiding dialing the presets correctly IMO.
 
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