Matrix GT1000FX or Red Sound MF10: what would I find out?

[JanHaakma]

Hi everyone,

I am quite new to the Fractal user group, had my AxeFX3 for over a week now and I'm absolutely loving it. I have been comparing it to my Suhr PT15IR a lot these days and I'm letting the Suhr go.

At this time I am looking at how to optimise my sound experience. I have two options now:

• a Suhr PT15IR and a HOOK 1x12" cabinet with WGS Veteran 30 speaker in it;
• The Axe FX3 with a Matrix power amp through the same HOOK cab (speaker sim off).

When I use the Suhr through the HOOK, I experience a bit more of an organic (ish) sound and feel. I'd like to get there with my Axe FX3 too. Let me be clear: the Fractal does sound great! But just a bit less organic. But I'm SURE the Fractal will be able to sound an feel just as good as the Suhr does.

So now I was wondering what you guys would advise me to do: go full FRFR (so for instance get a Red Sound MF10) or maybe change the speaker in my HOOK cab and keep the Matrix power amp? Any other options?

I don't really want to go the tube power amp way since I'd have to tweak all the amp settings in my presets (which will take more than just turning off the power amp modeling).

Thank you all so much!

 

[Mystik]

It is very subjective.
I have Matrix + PPC212 (Orange). Now I'm waiting for Elise.8, maybe I'll try MF.10 too.
But I know that whatever I wrote about feelings, I don't know if it will help you. Everyone hears differently.
You have the perfect amp. If you have the option, borrow a guitar cabinet for comparison. You can change a lot by loading a different IR into the Fractal.

 

[JanHaakma]

I know, it’s always subjective. Bus as I’m quite new to using something else than tube amps, I guess a lot of people on this forum had the same experience at first.

I do use a real guitar cab already with cab sims off in the AxeFx. But maybe it’s better to buy a FRFR speaker, put that into my guitar cab and leave speaker sim on?

 

[Mystik]

Playing with the FRFR gives you more possibilities to change the sound through different IRs.
And as strange as this sounds, you can also try turning on CAB simulation and using your guitar speaker. Why not? Fractal gives unlimited possibilities in creating sound, and sometimes it is worth going beyond habits. Maybe it will be your way

 

[lauke-lux]

If the hassle of driving around guitar cabs and the matrix and rack doesn't matter to you I'd take that option. Less flexible but no everlasting doubts about the eternal AITR discussions...
Personnally I'm 100% FRFR but with CLR cabs. I have a pre-G66 version of RS-MF10 also. It cuts great in a band mix but IMHO does color the sound a bit too midrangy to my taste, which is complicated with acoustic guitars. But of course with guitar cabs, acoustic guitars are "verboten".

 

[JanHaakma]

Playing with the FRFR gives you more possibilities to change the sound through different IRs.
And as strange as this sounds, you can also try turning on CAB simulation and using your guitar speaker. Why not? Fractal gives unlimited possibilities in creating sound, and sometimes it is worth going beyond habits. Maybe it will be your way

Well I tried leaving the cab sim on in all presets I tested but with this dedicated guitar cab they always sounded much better with the cab sim off.

If the hassle of driving around guitar cabs and the matrix and rack doesn't matter to you I'd take that option. Less flexible but no everlasting doubts about the eternal AITR discussions...
Personnally I'm 100% FRFR but with CLR cabs. I have a pre-G66 version of RS-MF10 also. It cuts great in a band mix but IMHO does color the sound a bit too midrangy to my taste, which is complicated with acoustic guitars. But of course with guitar cabs, acoustic guitars are "verboten".

For rehearsals and some live gigs I will only bring the AxeFX and the FC12. The cab thing is mostly for home joy and small venues when we don't use in-ear. So it's not really about the hassle, I just wonder how to get the nicest sound and feel in an amp-like way (so with an amp and one or two cabs).

An option I might try is buying an FRFR speaker, put that in my current dedicated guitar cab and try that with cab-sim on. My cab is kind of open back by the way, not ideal for FRFR-ish usage I guess...?

 

[lauke-lux]

Well I tried leaving the cab sim on in all presets I tested but with this dedicated guitar cab they always sounded much better with the cab sim off.


For rehearsals and some live gigs I will only bring the AxeFX and the FC12. The cab thing is mostly for home joy and small venues when we don't use in-ear. So it's not really about the hassle, I just wonder how to get the nicest sound and feel in an amp-like way (so with an amp and one or two cabs).

An option I might try is buying an FRFR speaker, put that in my current dedicated guitar cab and try that with cab-sim on. My cab is kind of open back by the way, not ideal for FRFR-ish usage I guess...?

Really no idea, never used open back FRFR. Closed back cabs are more focussed but the CLR has a wider dispersion due to it's speaker concept which imho does give it a better stage experience/performance than other solutions ( I also sometimes use a dBtechnologies floormonitor). My experience is that more than with tube amps, in order to have good FRFR sound you need to play and parameter your sounds at live levels.
Anyway I'm not a pro player and probably they will better advise you.

 

[Mystic38]

It is very subjective.
I have Matrix + PPC212 (Orange). Now I'm waiting for Elise.8, maybe I'll try MF.10 too.
But I know that whatever I wrote about feelings, I don't know if it will help you. Everyone hears differently.
You have the perfect amp. If you have the option, borrow a guitar cabinet for comparison. You can change a lot by loading a different IR into the Fractal.

have you considered putting a pair of Celestion F12-x200 into that Orange 212 cab?.. then you will have a "neutral" amp and "neutral" speaker.. allowing Cab IRs from your axe/fx

 

[JanHaakma]

I received and tried the F12-X200 yesterday. I tried it in my 1x12” HOOK guitar cab.

It’s obviously better than the Red Sound set but I prefer my WGS ET65 with cab sims turned off.

The WGS guitar speaker sounds and feels just more ‘real’ to me, the F12-X200 has a bit of artificialliness (is that correct English? ). Also, I found the F12-X200 quite boomy in the lows.

So I’m returning the Celestion. But again: it’s very good! If I didn’t have the opportunity to compare it to the WGS, I might have went for the F12. It is of course very convenient when you can just leave cab sims on.

 

[Sashman]

Can you share a preset that you tried with the Red Sound please?
We had rehearsal today and again I blew the 4x12 Orange cab out of the window with my Red Sound Set. So I would be interested to try your preset and see how it sounds through my Setup.
Thank you!

 

[Justincase]

I received and tried the F12-X200 yesterday. I tried it in my 1x12” HOOK guitar cab.

It’s obviously better than the Red Sound set but I prefer my WGS ET65 with cab sims turned off.

Thanks for your feedback. The celestion are really good. May have better luck in a celestion spec cab since they are a tuned port design. Adjusting the low resonate frequency may also help.
Glad you were able to compare to the red sound. What's great about the F12 is I was able to build two professional looking quality birch cabs and buy a cheap 530watt stereo power amp for $650. That's less than the cost of one red sound mf10 passive cab. My DIY cabs weigh 30lbs each and my rack amp added 20lbs to my rack. Personally I don't mind the extra 20lbs in my rack if that means I get better sound quality AND save over $1000.

 

[Mystic38]

I received and tried the F12-X200 yesterday. I tried it in my 1x12” HOOK guitar cab.

It’s obviously better than the Red Sound set but I prefer my WGS ET65 with cab sims turned off.

The WGS guitar speaker sounds and feels just more ‘real’ to me, the F12-X200 has a bit of artificialliness (is that correct English? ). Also, I found the F12-X200 quite boomy in the lows.

So I’m returning the Celestion. But again: it’s very good! If I didn’t have the opportunity to compare it to the WGS, I might have went for the F12. It is of course very convenient when you can just leave cab sims on.

DId you try the f12-x200 with cab sims on?.. if not then yes without cab sims then any full range speaker will sound fizzy and artificial.. after all the response goes to 12khz or so...this speaker needs cab sims on.

secondly, if the hook cab is an open back and the cab is less than a metre from walls or floor then you will get some bass bloom ..but this is what the global eq is for... if you look at the frequency response chart the response of the f12-x200 is on the warm side.

i guess i am saying that if all you did was swap a speaker and nothing else, then i would expect the identical results that you got...

and fwiw I have 2 f12-x200 in a PRS 212 OB cab and just like any other cab i needed to tailor the global eq to the room & relative placement of the speaker cab... and given the cab is 2ft from a wall then for my ears that would start at -3dB at 125Hz and -6dB at 63hz

 

[Tremonti]

Hi everyone,

I am quite new to the Fractal user group, had my AxeFX3 for over a week now and I'm absolutely loving it. I have been comparing it to my Suhr PT15IR a lot these days and I'm letting the Suhr go.

At this time I am looking at how to optimise my sound experience. I have two options now:

• a Suhr PT15IR and a HOOK 1x12" cabinet with WGS Veteran 30 speaker in it;
• The Axe FX3 with a Matrix power amp through the same HOOK cab (speaker sim off).

When I use the Suhr through the HOOK, I experience a bit more of an organic (ish) sound and feel. I'd like to get there with my Axe FX3 too. Let me be clear: the Fractal does sound great! But just a bit less organic. But I'm SURE the Fractal will be able to sound an feel just as good as the Suhr does.

So now I was wondering what you guys would advise me to do: go full FRFR (so for instance get a Red Sound MF10) or maybe change the speaker in my HOOK cab and keep the Matrix power amp? Any other options?

I don't really want to go the tube power amp way since I'd have to tweak all the amp settings in my presets (which will take more than just turning off the power amp modeling).

Thank you all so much!

My advice is let go of the PT sound and just dial up sounds in the Axe Fx III that you love. Stop chasing tube tone and start chasing tone.

 

[Dagwin]

Thanks for your feedback. The celestion are really good. May have better luck in a celestion spec cab since they are a tuned port design. Adjusting the low resonate frequency may also help.
Glad you were able to compare to the red sound. What's great about the F12 is I was able to build two professional looking quality birch cabs and buy a cheap 530watt stereo power amp for $650. That's less than the cost of one red sound mf10 passive cab. My DIY cabs weigh 30lbs each and my rack amp added 20lbs to my rack. Personally I don't mind the extra 20lbs in my rack if that means I get better sound quality AND save over $1000.

I can confirm that the F12-X200 works best in the Celestion designed cab. I tried it in 2 other cabs and was not pleased at all. Built a cab according to the Celestion design and everything changed. Works great now, we even use it occasionally as a party speaker. I think it plays music also really well.

 

[Justincase]

I can confirm that the F12-X200 works best in the Celestion designed cab. I tried it in 2 other cabs and was not pleased at all. Built a cab according to the Celestion design and everything changed. Works great now, we even use it occasionally as a party speaker. I think it plays music also really well.

Thanks for the feedback. I was tempted to just buy some cheap ebay cabs. Glad I didn't go that route. I've only used my cabs for guitar. The headrush FRFR12s they replaced I use as party speakers and for backing tracks.