Matrix GT1000 - Output level questions and clarity

GuitarMan86

GuitarMan86

Power User
Hey Guys,

Those of you with a Matrix GT1000 (or GT800 for that matter).....wondering if you can clearly elaborate on the Channel Level settings with the AxeII. I am referring to the FAQ section on the site where one of the FAS forum members is being quoted on how to properly set the levels with the Axe.

F.A.Q. :: Matrix

On my AxeII my global Outputs 1 and 2 are currently set to 0.00. In the above link it mentions how to push the maximum load into the speakers while properly setting the AxeII gain levels (global menu, out1 and out2 pages).

Quote:
"For example, if you have a 2×12 cab rated at 8 Ohms loaded with a pair of V30s, your max RMS power handling is 120w. Set the Gain slider of the OP connected to the matrix at its lowest (-12db) set the Matrix knob to its lowest and the AFX knob to its highest. Start playing and raise the Matrix knob to full (you can actually do this with no speaker attached with SS amps – so no danger of damaging your cab or blowing your ear drums during the procedure). If the light starts to flicker while raising the Matrix gain to full your patches are too hot – back off the patch gain. Once the Matrix is up full – go back to the global output menu and start raising the gain slider until the Matrix light flickers while playing. At this point your puttong 30w into your cab – if the light goes to permanantly lit quickly (from off) thats fine – it means you putting 60w into the cab – but your better off with the light flicking. So – now you know your at 30w. the cab handles 120w. Each 3db raise doubles the power – so raising the gain slider in the global out by a further 6 db will then push the full 120w into your cab (3 db up from 30w = 60w, then a further 3db up from 60w = 120w). At this point your set."

So, I am trying to understand a simple question.... do you end up playing with the Matrix channel levels up all the way and only adjust the Output level knob on the AxeII? Or, do you put the AxeII Output level knob up all the way and adjust the Matrix levels for volume? (should the signal lights on the Matrix be flickering during playing in order to get the best 'push' to the speakers??)

Sorry....for the somewhat silly question (have had some power amps in the past but..) wanted to understand how this unit is best used. I think I remember seeing quite a few pics of the Matrix and noticing the lights were flickering and level was turned up...so just need to ask this. Thanks!
 
I'm not sure if this is any help, but I asked the same basic question last week. My question was do I max out the amp and use the Output 2 knob or Do I max Output 2 and use the amps level for loudness a,d someone said either way it doesn't matter. I didn't feel that was a great answer, but that's what I got. Hopefully Matt from Matrix will chime in. He's in regularly. I have honestly tried it both ways, and I really couldn't tell a difference. Either way it sounded awesome to me, very percussive and thumpy.
 
scottburrow said:
I'm not sure if this is any help, but I asked the same basic question last week. My question was do I max out the amp and use the Output 2 knob or Do I max Output 2 and use the amps level for loudness a,d someone said either way it doesn't matter. I didn't feel that was a great answer, but that's what I got. Hopefully Matt from Matrix will chime in. He's in regularly. I have honestly tried it both ways, and I really couldn't tell a difference. Either way it sounded awesome to me, very percussive and thumpy.
Click to expand...

Thanks Scott.... yes, Matt is great with chiming in and very helpful on this kind of stuff.

I wasnt able to really distinguish if it made a difference either way myself. But, if I need to be pushing more to the speakers in order to get that 'thump' and 'air' I am used to feeling with a tube amp (so to speak), then thats what I am after.
But, what I found was when I did the above settings shown in the link my patch was too hot and when I lowered the amp block level in the patch and brought up the gain level I almost felt like I was right where I started again? hah
 
Hi there,
We covered the subject a little during the Axe-Fest.

The lights flickering will show an output of -9db, as mentioned in the post above.

The idea of raising the gain on the Matrix, with your patch at normal levels, is to ensure that your signal is not too hot to run the Matrix with its gain flat out. We dont want anyone to damage their speakers.

The safest way of running any of the Matrix amps is with the gains set a full, and the adjustments to volume made on the Axe, in such a manner that when running into normal speaker cabs it is impossible to send too much voltage in their direction. This way its not possible for a helpful person to turn the amp up for you, because its already there.

I think the slideshows from the show will help. I will have them up on the Matrix site later tonight.

If you have any questions you are welcome to shoot me a mail ( matt @ matrixamplification dot com )

My best regards
Matt
 
MatrixAmp said:
Hi there,
We covered the subject a little during the Axe-Fest.

The lights flickering will show an output of -9db, as mentioned in the post above.

The idea of raising the gain on the Matrix, with your patch at normal levels, is to ensure that your signal is not too hot to run the Matrix with its gain flat out. We dont want anyone to damage their speakers.

The safest way of running any of the Matrix amps is with the gains set a full, and the adjustments to volume made on the Axe, in such a manner that when running into normal speaker cabs it is impossible to send too much voltage in their direction. This way its not possible for a helpful person to turn the amp up for you, because its already there.

I think the slideshows from the show will help. I will have them up on the Matrix site later tonight.

If you have any questions you are welcome to shoot me a mail ( matt @ matrixamplification dot com )

My best regards
Matt
Click to expand...

Thanks Matt, I knew you would chime in with the right answer. I know I should have remembered this, as I was there when you said it. but you know...:mrgreen
 
MatrixAmp said:
Hi there,
We covered the subject a little during the Axe-Fest.

The lights flickering will show an output of -9db, as mentioned in the post above.

The idea of raising the gain on the Matrix, with your patch at normal levels, is to ensure that your signal is not too hot to run the Matrix with its gain flat out. We dont want anyone to damage their speakers.

The safest way of running any of the Matrix amps is with the gains set a full, and the adjustments to volume made on the Axe, in such a manner that when running into normal speaker cabs it is impossible to send too much voltage in their direction. This way its not possible for a helpful person to turn the amp up for you, because its already there.

I think the slideshows from the show will help. I will have them up on the Matrix site later tonight.

If you have any questions you are welcome to shoot me a mail ( matt @ matrixamplification dot com )

My best regards
Matt
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply Matt..... yes, the slides would be great to see. I am East Coast so wasnt able to join in the fun....maybe the next AxeFest (on East Coast in future maybe)

So, if the levels on the Matrix are all the way up with the output levels set accordingly to the Axe......I dont anticipate the 'signal' levels flickering on the Matrix unless Output level knob(s) on the AxeII are at a high level? ...am I reading this correct? They would only flicker once the peak level is pushed (not to overdrive the speaker)?
 
The answer given to "matrix or AFX full" as being "either" is the correct answer. it does not matter from a sonic or gain staging POV. you "could" run neither full - but having one set to max while using the other for control makes sense, but it doesnt matter which. The idea is to set the INTERNAL levels of the AFX so when you max both outputs, your not pushing too much to your speakers. How much "too much" is depends on your speakers. For me its 60w and 8 Ohms- and flickering lights are roughly 42w into that 8 Ohm load (as they flicker at -9db from max). If you have a 240w cab at 16 Ohms then you can have much more power than when the lights are flickering. Those flickering lights only give a guide to what power your pushing.

Cliff has said you shouldnt run the AFX full as that will be putting out a really hot signal which may clip your amps inputs - but thats not true if your limiting that output with the global gain levels.

if you let me know your cab configuration/power handling/Ohm rating I can guide you more on setting your levels.
 
Heres a how to guide.

1. Disconnect your speakers.
2. Select your loudest patch (with any vol boosts engaged).
3. Turn AFX and Matrix up full.
4. go to the global output page, and reduce the gain slider until the Matrix lights start to flicker (they will be on permanantly probably at the start).

At this point your putting "roughly" the following into the speakers (from a single channel - bridging the amp gives different figures):

4 Ohm Cab = 62 Watts
8 Ohm Cab = 42 Watts
16 Ohm cab = 30 Watts

Now - if your cab can handle more than that you can turn up the gain slider again - ever 3dbs doubles the power - so if you have a 120w 8 Ohm cab, you can turn up the slider 4db or so, which will provide around 120w. If you have a 240w 16 Ohm cab you can turn it up 9db (as thats 8 times the power = 240w).

At this point, when both Matrix and AFX front panel knobs are up full - your pushing the max power your speaker will take. You could reduce the gain slider a db or so if you want to play safe. At this point your set - as long as you use the patch you carried this process out with as you "master" patch. if you create another that is louder you will be pushing more than is safe into your speaker. You can then set EITHER the Matrix or AFX front knob to max - and control your volume level using the other, and it doesnt matter which you use.
 
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paulmapp8306 said:
The answer given to "matrix or AFX full" as being "either" is the correct answer. it does not matter from a sonic or gain staging POV. you "could" run neither full - but having one set to max while using the other for control makes sense, but it doesnt matter which. The idea is to set the INTERNAL levels of the AFX so when you max both outputs, your not pushing too much to your speakers. How much "too much" is depends on your speakers. For me its 60w and 8 Ohms- and flickering lights are roughly 42w into that 8 Ohm load (as they flicker at -9db from max). If you have a 240w cab at 16 Ohms then you can have much more power than when the lights are flickering. Those flickering lights only give a guide to what power your pushing.

Cliff has said you shouldnt run the AFX full as that will be putting out a really hot signal which may clip your amps inputs - but thats not true if your limiting that output with the global gain levels.

if you let me know your cab configuration/power handling/Ohm rating I can guide you more on setting your levels.
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Hi Paul, thanks for the assistance..... I am running a 2x12 stereo Genz Benz cab (using the 8ohm L/R inputs). Using L/R from the Matrix to cab L/R

G-Flex | GENZ BENZ
 
OK. so as per my "how to" post, disconnect your speaker - select your loudest patch (inc any solo vol boosts). Set both AFX and Matrix to full - reduce global OP gain slider until the Matrix light is flickering. Thats around 42w into an 8 Ohm speaker. You could almost double that - but Id either leave the gain slider it as it is, or raise it 1b or 2db max. Thats would be fine.

Select which device you want to control your volume (I use the Matrix because its instant - where as the afx has a lag, but you can use either). Set that device to min and the other device to full. Re-connect your speakers and your good to go. Maxing both will be safe for your speakers - just raise your controlling devices vol to taste.
 
Thanks for taking the time Paulmapp8306....

One more assumption here: So, since I am using the Gflex guitar cab in stereo (8ohm left and right) would this need re-adjusting if I decide to use two 2x12 gflex cabs at 16ohms each? For larger gigs I may take both and run both spread out L/R on stage and the cab has single 16ohm input or dual stereo 8ohm inputs for L/R. I wanted to make sure I have an even balance without mistakenly running different setups on stage. Thanks
 
Not necessarily. If the 2x12s are still loud enough then I wouldnt touch it. You will be getting less power though due to the higher load - so if there isnt enough volume on tap you can raise the global gain slider by 5db. A doubling of the load (from 8 to 16 Ohms) will reduce the power by roughly 1/3. A 2db raise is roughly 1.8x so negates the loss. Using two speakers instead on one per cab will double the power handling of the cab - so a 3db raise will give you double power from the amp to compensate. As dbs are a log scale, you just add the two together - so an overall 5db increase of the globabl gain slider would pretty much "reset" you max power to the new cabs (without having to go through the whole calibration thing).

Alternatively, use OP1 for the 8 Ohm cabs, and OP 2 for the 16 Ohm cabs - and set the globals for each speaker (ony works if your not also feeding FOH of course - as that will be using OP1 I guess).
 
GuitarMan86 said:
Great information Paul....much appreciated!
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How about a new port city 2 x 12 with EVH 20 watts each. It is wired 16ohm mono or 8ohm stereo. I have always played with AFX II at max, my loudest patch is AMP level is -5.5 with a 3 db boost for leads. Turned my Matrix 1000 (bridged) to about 11o'clock and for the first time noticed the level lights. It was starting to hurt my ears and really loud and sounded really good. Could not imagine any sound guy asking me to turn up...Am I ok this way?
 
kippiejr said:
How about a new port city 2 x 12 with EVH 20 watts each. It is wired 16ohm mono or 8ohm stereo. I have always played with AFX II at max, my loudest patch is AMP level is -5.5 with a 3 db boost for leads. Turned my Matrix 1000 (bridged) to about 11o'clock and for the first time noticed the level lights. It was starting to hurt my ears and really loud and sounded really good. Could not imagine any sound guy asking me to turn up...Am I ok this way?
Click to expand...

Hi there,
Were you running a mono signal in to channel A, with the switch set to bridged and using the central bridged output to the 16ohm mono input of your cab ?

In which case you would have up to 650 watts available ( the sum of the outputs into an 8 ohm load ), to play into your 40 watt cab. The output lights starting to flicker at -9db would show that you are approaching 80 watts output.

I would suggest leaving your mono input to channel A, setting the switch on the amp to stereo and plugging you cab into output A. A single channel of the GT1000FX will output up to 150 watts into a 16ohm load, with the signal light starting to illuminate at 20 watts.

The single channel solution will give you a visual indication of output power that is more useful regarding the 20 watt power rating of the drivers that you are using, and still provide more than enough headroom for your cab.

I have put a link to the charts on the FAQ page at the MatrixGuitarAmplification site which show the output powers for various loads.

F.A.Q. :: Matrix

Please do let me know if you have any questions.
My best regards
Matt
 
I am running the matrix with the levels at exactly half (12 noon) and the output of the axe usually at around noon also give or take depending on the gig. This sounds pretty good to me, but is it 'wrong'? I've tried the other ways and settled on this one from a control point of view.
 
No way is wrong. The OP of the AFX immediately precedes the input of the Matrix (which is what your controlling with the Matrix knobs).From a tonal/functional perspective altering either/or/both will achieve the same results. The point of maxing the Matrix and the AFX and controlling the signal level from the Gain slider in the global menu is to limit the max signal that can be passed to the speakers from altering the real knobs (the ones that are likely to get altered during a gig).

The most important thing is that signal level. If your happy with 12 O'Clock on both Matrix and AFX thats fine. Just remember when tempted to increase either your putting more signal into the speakers - and the Matrix can put a LOT of signal into a speaker dependant on Ohms and if the amp is bridged or not. Just remember that flickering lights mean -9db and steady light (just) means -6db and you should be fine.
 
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