Matrix GT 1000 FX or GT 1600 FX? Is the matrix GT 1600 FX too powerful?

Hira

New Member
I don´t know which one to buy… and I don´t have many references about the matrix 1600. For playing live I go directly to PA, but I want a power amp to use mainly for rehearsals with my band. We play Metal/progressive… so my guitar sometimes needs to have a good level, ¿could be enough with the matrix 1000?? (I would use it an FRFR cab, maybe Harley benton 212 with two Bayema 12ga50 speakers or maybe with a matrix FR212). Before the axe fx 2, I used a Mesa boogie roadster (on 50 watts mode) and a 2x12 mesa rectifier cab. Someone could advise me? someone has been in the same situation? Thanks for reading, I hope someone can help me make a decision. And sorry for my english!!
 
I used a 1600 for a while and liked it but tried my tube power amp one day out of boredom and was I was glad I did. The 1600 wouldn't get as loud as my VHT 2/90/2 or my Mesa 2/100 and didn't have the tone either. I'm sticking with my VHT. hope this helps. My band plays pretty loud by the way.
 
I have a GT1000 and a Harley Benton with 12GA50's and it's loud as hell, I don't think you're really going to need more than that.

Vamos, que vas a ir sobrado.
 
The 1600 was primarily designed for those with 16 Ohm 4x12s with higher powered speakers in them - and in VERY loud bands - using the speakers as backline (ie not really going to desk - so needing to project the volume). The 1000 gives 500w into 4 Ohms, which translates to nearer 220/240w at 16 Ohms - so while the 1000 can drive that to its max, theres not really any headroom left. The 1600 just gives headroom for those guys.

For anyone else (ie running 4/8 Ohm 4x12s, though with lower power speakers like greenbacks, or those running 2x12s or 1x12s) the 1000 should be plenty loud enough.

Regards the VHTs - I love those too, but the sound levels they give only happen when they are the higher sensitivity level, then pushed - so the tones is compressing/distorting some when you hit those levels. Thats sounds great for some things - and for some people which is all good, but its not really what the AFX needs to do what its designed to do.

Horses for courses.
 
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I've been using the 1600 for the last 6 month or so (the 1000 before that). I'm happy I upgraded to the 1600. I generally run a Mesa 4x12 Rectifier Cab, and a Mesa 2x12 Lonestar open back cab. I usually leave the levels on the Matrix set at about 2 o clock, and just modulate the volume on the front of the Axe (typically set at noon). It's loud as hell and completely clean and I know I have loads more headroom if I needed to push it harder. I can easily rage over the top of the other guitar players Triple Rectifier all day long.
 
I have a GT1000 and a Harley Benton with 12GA50's and it's loud as hell, I don't think you're really going to need more than that.

Vamos, que vas a ir sobrado.

I'm glad to hear that because the price difference is substantial… I want a "linear" and flat power amp that could help me to get the "right tones" of the cab sims. You use the sames speakers and cab that I want to use… that's very helpful.

Saludos paisano, gracias por echarle una mano a este chicharrero desorientado :)
 
For anyone else (ie running 4/8 Ohm 2x12s, though with lower power speakers like greenbacks, or those running 2x12s or 1x12s) the 1000 should be plenty loud enough.

Nice, your explanation is very clear. I have never use a solid state amp so for me is difficult to compare the potency of tube amps and transistor amps. Probably, I will use this speakers in a 2x12 cab: http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/12GA50E.pdf Keeping in mind its characteristic I think the 1000 could be a good if it is as powerful as you say. Thanks for your answer.
 
I'm glad to hear that because the price difference is substantial… I want a "linear" and flat power amp that could help me to get the "right tones" of the cab sims. You use the sames speakers and cab that I want to use… that's very helpful.

Saludos paisano, gracias por echarle una mano a este chicharrero desorientado :)

That setup is working very well for a few guys that I know, and it's quite affordable if you live in Spain.

Tienes un privado
 
Nice, your explanation is very clear. I have never use a solid state amp so for me is difficult to compare the potency of tube amps and transistor amps. Probably, I will use this speakers in a 2x12 cab: http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/12GA50E.pdf Keeping in mind its characteristic I think the 1000 could be a good if it is as powerful as you say. Thanks for your answer.

Yeh - its not easy. There was a thread way back when about tube watts v SS watts.

Basically a tube amp is not clean - its compressing and saturating when pushed, but its power is measured clean before that happens. a 50w valve amp can actually be putting out closer to 100w when fully open. A SS on the other hand needs to stay well within its power limits (does NOT want to be clipping) so needs generally 3db headroom (thats half its power !!) to account for spikes.

You can see from that, that as a 50w valve amp can put out 100w, and as a SS amp needs headroom it would need to be rated at around 200w to put out the same max power CLEANLY (ie not getting nasty) - so typically a SS amp needs to be rated at 4x the power of a valve amp to get the same volume from. Also as a SS amps output changes dependant on load - that needs taking into account.

GENERALLY SS amps are rated into 4 Ohms (not always so check what load the stated power is messured at). The power then drops by roughly 1/3 everytime you double (or half - if say the rating is at 8 Ohms but the amp can power 4 Ohm loads) the load. So a 300w amp into 4 Ohms provides closer to 200w into 8 Ohms, and 120w into 16 Ohms.

As you can see - thats a lot of calculation - and a need for understanding. It also means that to provide equivalent volume (worse case) to a 50w valve amp into a 16 Ohm cab, the SS amp (assuming its rated at 4 Ohms as normal) would need to provide 200w into 16 Ohms, which is 300w into 8 Ohms, which is 450w into 4 Ohms - so a 450w ss amp = 50 valve amp for volume (roughly) IF you uise a 16 Ohm cab (an 8 or 4 Ohm cab the SS amp would be louder). Thats what leads to the often quoted "valve watts are louder than SS watts). There not - a watt is a watt, but you can see why that myth has taken hold.

The 1000 provided 500w into 4 Ohms - so has roughly the same max volume as a 50w valve amp (and is why Matrix's MODULE is called the G50 - its the same power section as the GT1000 but is names "50" as it equates to a 50w valve amp in the worse case - ie a 16 Ohm load). The GT1600 is 800w into 4 Ohms, so closer to a 90w valve amp in max volume.

Of course the Max volume were talking about is CLEAN volume - where as the valve amp wouldnt be (and why they sound different - not better, not worse, just different).

Hope you understand that, and it helps.
 
I use the 1600 watt version with my GFlex 2x12 ported oversized cab. Used a Mesa 2:90 before this for years and could never get anything to sound like it. This does. Tried lower watt versions and nothing came close until this one. I use 400 watt Eminence Pro Delta A's in it though. High watt and very flat response. I think it's the key to making them sound right. I don't need sheer volume, just the headroom for clean. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
Thats what leads to the often quoted "valve watts are louder than SS watts). There not - a watt is a watt, but you can see why that myth has taken hold.
I totally agree with you.

Well, in cab my cab I will use 8 Ohms (mono) or 16 ohms (for stereo), so the matrix 1000 will give 325 watts in mono and 150 watts in stereo. Maybe I will have a very low volume in the stereo mode?

Your answers are very helpful, Thanks!
 
The 1000 will give you roughly 330w mono, or 220w stereo - though you will get 220w from each speaker. In mono you will provide each speaker with 165w (as the 330w total will be split between speakers).

That will give you a "useful equivalent" (versus a valve amp not pushed into clipping/distortion - and taking into account 3db headroom you really need) of 80w per speaker in mono (so perfect for a V30, CL80 or similar) and 110w per speaker in stereo. The Bayemas have a sensitivity of 102db, versus a Celestion V30s sensitivity of 100db. That means if you drive both speakers with the same power, the Bayemas will be 2db louder than the v30s. Given that, your cab loaded with Bayemas and driven by the 1000 should be approx the same volume as a V30 loaded 2x12 driven by a 50-60w valve amp maxed out (as in amp head or 2x12 combo). Id say its enough even if the speakers can handle more.

If you want to drive those Bayema's to their full potential (which will be LOUD) you need 250w per speaker. The 1600 would provide 265w into each speaker in mono, or 355w into each speaker in stereo. Thats possibly a better fit - BUT only if you need to deliver the volumes associated with full power into those speaker.
 
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Given that, your cab loaded with Bayemas and driven by the 1000 should be approx the same volume as a V30 loaded 2x12 driven by a 50-60w valve amp maxed out (as in amp head or 2x12 combo).

Thanks, I think that would be enough. Definitely I will buy the gt1000 fx. Regarding the speakers I need to see if the volume of the cab (520 x 742 x 300mm) is suitable for the baymas.
 
Basically a tube amp is not clean - its compressing and saturating when pushed, but its power is measured clean before that happens. a 50w valve amp can actually be putting out closer to 100w when fully open. A SS on the other hand needs to stay well within its power limits (does NOT want to be clipping) so needs generally 3db headroom (thats half its power !!) to account for spikes.

Hi, just a few words on this:

Don't mixmatch loudness and amp power! The only reason why a tube amp feels louder than solid state, is because of the musically clipping when being pushed. The gradual saturation of tubes compresses the high signal peaks which altering the crest factor (crest factor = ratio between highest peak and avarge energy, also called RMS energy) to become lower! This results in a higher perceived loudness at lower power rating.

On a solid state amp you have to avoid clipping at any time - so to get the same perceived loudness as on a tube amp, you need much more output power because of the higher crest factor. There is a rule of thumb on most solid state amps - working with normal music signals at nominal input gain, on 1/8 of the maximum rated power there is no clipping at max. output signal excursion.

50Watts always remain 50Watts - it's all just about perceived loudness;)


cheers
Paco
 
I have the GT1000FX, which I have run through a 1x12", 2x12" or Matrix CFR12 FRFR solution. No problem with keeping up with a band including drums and a second guitarist. And PLENTY of room left on the dial as well. I've never felt close to needing to upgrade the GT1000FX to something more powerful.

I did switch from the 1x12" though, but that was for typical, "Is a 1x12 enough?" reasons, nothing to do with the power amp!
 
Well, in cab my cab I will use 8 Ohms (mono) or 16 ohms (for stereo), so the matrix 1000 will give 325 watts in mono and 150 watts in stereo. Maybe I will have a very low volume in the stereo mode?

Hey Hira,

Just to clear this up, as it is a question that gets asked a lot:

The loudness with your cab in Mono or Stereo mode will be EXACTLY THE SAME

This works for pretty much the same for any solid state amplfier.

Here's why. Let say (just for this example) the amplifier gives 100 volts on its output. You connect in mono (your cab has 2 16 ohm speakers) each speaker gets 100 volts from the amplifer, off one channel. If you connect in stereo, the amplifier still gives 100 volts, but this time 100 from channel A, 100 from channel B ... each speaker is still connected to a 100V source, so it is the same volume as before.

If you want to think about it in watts ... just for this example, if you get 200W into 8 ohms from the amp in mono it is shared as 100W to each speaker, in stereo, you will get 100W into 16 ohms to each speaker ...100W per speaker in both cases.

(Actually, I lied, it will be a teeny weeny bit louder in stereo, as there are a few more transitors delivering the power, but its a few % difference, you can forget about it)


So once again, for cabs wired where the mono impedance is half the stereo impedance, the volume delivered in mono and stereo will be
(very very nearly) exactly the same.
 

So once again, for cabs wired where the mono impedance is half the stereo impedance, the volume delivered in mono and stereo will be
(very very nearly) exactly the same.

So, the volume coming out of each speaker will be approx "the same" in mono and stereo? I thought that if the impedance in stereo was higher (16 ohms) than in mono (8 ohms) it would mean that the final volume would be lower.

Thanks for your answer
 
You are correct that a single 16 ohm speaker would deliver half of a single 8 ohm speaker ... but you need to remember that in stereo you have two lots of 16 ohm ... and two halves make a whole.
 
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