Matching of Master Volume and Preamp Gain

lj045637

Inspired
Dear all,

I use my Axe Fx II XL+ with Equator D5s and am mainly focused on home recording at low volume.

Recently I purchased some high gain presets from Fremen and would like to tweak them to my needs.
Where I am struggling with is how to match the Master Volume to the preamp gain...suitable for my pickups.

Is there some recipe how to do this?
Lower both to zero and raise them one by one?
Or fix Master Volume at max. 4 and adjust preamp gain?

I play a Suhr Modern with humbuckers which sound too dark with the current state of these presets.
I am aware that the amp EQ would be a measure, but I would like to fix the ratio Master Volume / preamp gain first correctly and then continue with EQ.

I am fully into that 80s rock/metal sound like Dokken, Whitesnake etc.

Really looking forward to your advice.

Thanks & rock on !!!
 
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I'm relatively new to the Axe Fx and originally levelled my volume with the output meters. I found it didn't really work. After some research, I found what you need to do is use the VU meters within the Utility page to set your average volumes between or within your patches. The output meters can only show you your peaks relative to your signal where as the VU will show you your average volume (RMS). VU meters get over looked in my opinion which happened to me. This video helped me to finally sort out my levels properly.



If you want to use multiple guitars you could set an overall average between what your using.
 
I'm relatively new to the Axe Fx and originally levelled my volume with the output meters. I found it didn't really work. After some research, I found what you need to do is use the VU meters within the Utility page to set your average volumes between or within your patches. The output meters can only show you your peaks relative to your signal where as the VU will show you your average volume (RMS). VU meters get over looked in my opinion which happened to me. This video helped me to finally sort out my levels properly.



If you want to use multiple guitars you could set an overall average between what your using.

Thanks, Mike...but that was not my question :-( it is relating to matching of master volume and preamp gain.
 
Thanks, Mike...but that was not my question :-( it is relating to matching of master volume and preamp gain.

Ah ok sorry. Well I don't know what the maths behind it is, but I would look at it from a tonal perspective. I set my master volume at 5, and then adjust my pre amp gain first. After that I'll go and adjust my master. The higher the master the more bright it becomes.
 
The usual advice is the following:
Turn the drive down a tad and the master volume down a fair bit to start.
Turn up the master slowly, stopping to compensate with the Level parameter (because louder sounds "better" and you don't want to be biased by volume).
There will come a point when turning it up no longer gets louder with headroom but instead compresses the power tubes.
Dial it down a tad from there, and that's the general "sweet spot".

Then dial in preamp gain from there.
 
With high gain though, I turn down the Master heaps.

Some amps need a bit of master push - others like the 5150 just sound better lower.
 
With high gain though, I turn down the Master heaps.

Some amps need a bit of master push - others like the 5150 just sound better lower.

I would say it would come down to taste. I'm using a VH4 emulation and my master is at about 7. Might depend on your drive pedal settings as well.
 
Not sure what it means to "match the Master Volume to the preamp gain", but it's really a matter of preference and taste. **Generally speaking** if you want a more "scooped" tone, leave the Master volume pretty low (like 0.50 to 2) and turn up the Input Drive to taste. You'll have to turn up the Amp Level since the volume will be low. If you want more midrange, turn the Master up higher. Again, this is generally speaking. Different amps work differently from each other, but this I what I do usually. Once I get my Input Drive/Master Volume set comfortably, I start playing around with the Bass, MIddle, Treble, Presence, and Depth to do more detailed tweaking.

Also, Equator D5 user here, too. Love these speakers! Easily the best bang for the buck for studio monitors.
 
The sweet spot is going to vary by amp model. It's best to research the amp model you are using (using Yeks amp models guide) which will give you a good starting point and tweak to taste from there. For example soldano needs a fairly high master, Mesa fairly low. Also lower master levels will clear mud and add brightness (generally speaking) but too low and you will lose mojo.
 
The problem with your line of thinking is that your failing to realize that each amp model is going to react differently. Some amp models rely on getting a lot of the tone from power tube distortion and sound subjectively "better" with a fairly cranked master volume. Others, like some Mesa's are mainly pre-amp distortion and you can run the master volume fairly low, like at 2 or 3. Essentially no one dimes a Mesa lol

Then there is also the subjective judgement of what sounds "best.... MV at 4 vs MV at 6 sounds different with regards to tone, tightness etc on a Marshall style amp, but who's to say which is "correct" ??

You can't treat the Axe like a tool where one adjust is going to work across 200+ amp models. You need to really learn the ins/out of each amp model your using, because some operate in a fairly unique manner, which is modeled.

You also need to realize that just like with hardware amps, tonal settings are very personal, and you really need to adjust by ear more than anything. There is no real "recipe" that is going to work across the board
 
I turn the one up and the other down and then the other way round, so I can hear what I prefer on that model. If both parts sound bad, it's just not the right model for me. If one half sounds good it might be worth a try to tweak the weak half.
As a rule of thump: Usually you don't want the power amp to distort much, it should overdrive a bit or get to the edge of overdrive only, that's where the lows don't loose their attack and definition.
 
I'm a little confused. While both the MV and preamp gain have capacitors which change the tone as the levels are changed, I would think that "too dark with my pickups" would be something that you would address with BMT changes, not gain changes.

If you are adjusting pre-built presets to work with different output levels of your pickups, you would probably be best off adjusting the input trim of the amp block. Ideally, the balance between MV & preamp Gain is not something that you want to mess with too much (otherwise, why bother buying presets?), and you should be able to match the overall distortion level to some reference recording with just the input trim.
 
I'm a little confused. While both the MV and preamp gain have capacitors which change the tone as the levels are changed, I would think that "too dark with my pickups" would be something that you would address with BMT changes, not gain changes.

If you are adjusting pre-built presets to work with different output levels of your pickups, you would probably be best off adjusting the input trim of the amp block. Ideally, the balance between MV & preamp Gain is not something that you want to mess with too much (otherwise, why bother buying presets?), and you should be able to match the overall distortion level to some reference recording with just the input trim.
That makes sense...just tried it and it improved a lot...raised the input trim and tadada there it was :)
What does it mean when I have to increase my input trim of that user preset? Is the output weaker of my PUs?
Do I need to tweak the MV trim as well ?
 
Re-reading the OP, I'm not actually 100% sure if he's talking about the master volume, or the output level ?

If someone has never owned real guitar amps before (increasing common these days) its an easy mistake to think that 'master volume' is the volume of the patch. I've seen plenty of people turn down the MV on Fender amp models to make them quieter, not realizing those are non-master volume amps and are supposed to be set to 10 for accuracy.

Really need to understand some fundamentals of tube amps and master vs non-master volume amps, preamp vs power amp gain, input trim, as well as gain staging. You can certainly just tweak the output level and change the loudness, but its going to sound very different than increasing the MV and lowering the output on some amps, and its going to sound different again on amps where maybe you want to increase the preamp gain, turn down the MV, and increase the output level.

Thats the tricky thing with the Axe, you need to understand a bit how the controls work, in order to know what knobs to adjust to get the result your after
 
Re-reading the OP, I'm not actually 100% sure if he's talking about the master volume, or the output level ?

If someone has never owned real guitar amps before (increasing common these days) its an easy mistake to think that 'master volume' is the volume of the patch. I've seen plenty of people turn down the MV on Fender amp models to make them quieter, not realizing those are non-master volume amps and are supposed to be set to 10 for accuracy.

Really need to understand some fundamentals of tube amps and master vs non-master volume amps, preamp vs power amp gain, input trim, as well as gain staging. You can certainly just tweak the output level and change the loudness, but its going to sound very different than increasing the MV and lowering the output on some amps, and its going to sound different again on amps where maybe you want to increase the preamp gain, turn down the MV, and increase the output level.

Thats the tricky thing with the Axe, you need to understand a bit how the controls work, in order to know what knobs to adjust to get the result your after
Talking about the MV. I owned real amps before, but never an amp modeler.
 
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