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Mark IIC+ Amp Model Issues

mr_fender

Fractal Fanatic
Hello

I found these tunings to give me a really nice tone, thanks a lot Mr Fender .
Beefy and ballsy. BTW I use de FAt switch on, with Treble on 7 and Presence on 4 or 5 according to my monitor and the level I play in my room.
Yeah fat works well for giving lead tones a bit more balls.
 

Guitarjon

Power User
Perhaps this video can help a bit with getting good crunchy tones out of the MK amps.


I've found that switching the tonestack in the IIC+ to USA Rhythm really helps to make that amp shine for rock tones.
 

nicolasrivera

Fractal Fanatic
Last night this little boogie came in for service, never had one of this and perhaps its the only one in Honduras, its a 1986 .22 plus, a Mark for "normal" people.

I put new tubes in it, connect it to the Suhr Reactive Load and into the AX8, loaded my favorite CAb IR for Boogies and this thing sounds glorius, 22 watts only but man does it sound great.

I had to spend some time with one of the mark amps to almost match the richness of the tone, but i could not match it 100%, im guessing i have it at 90%.

There is something happening in the tone that i can't pinpoint yet, but i love this little fellow.

I'll post some clips and the amp block preset when im finish matching it.

 

mr_fender

Fractal Fanatic
That looks like a Studio 22 not a 22+. The Studio 22+ had a separate lead master control on the front for balancing the two channels' outputs. The Studio 22's were more like the Mark I amps in that their boost or Lead "channel" adds a gain stage at the input, in front of the tone stack. Lead Gain stages of the Mark II and up are added after the tone stack (one triode for the IIa and IIb, two triodes for the IIc and up.
 

nicolasrivera

Fractal Fanatic
That looks like a Studio 22 not a 22+. The Studio 22+ had a separate lead master control on the front for balancing the two channels' outputs. The Studio 22's were more like the Mark I amps in that their boost or Lead "channel" adds a gain stage at the input, in front of the tone stack. Lead Gain stages of the Mark II and up are added after the tone stack (one triode for the IIa and IIb, two triodes for the IIc and up.
You are right, i have the amp open up and in the bors its marked as .22 without the +
 

stink

Inspired
These models are what I primarily use and I have no trouble dialing them in. Here's an old clip of mine that I've never posted on here, using the USA LEAD IIC+ BR/DP amp model. This is way back with the Quantum 1.05 firmware. In the current version of this patch (which I like much better), I've switched to using the USA IIC++ model, plus almost every block in the chain has been either altered or replaced. If you like this, I can give you settings/pointers on how to go about building a similar IIc+ patch.


Ignore the sloppy, out of practice, aimless playing, as this was meant as a tone test for only me to hear (and yes, I know I use way too much gain :D)


Ok Shredi, that totally kicked ass! Would you mind sharing the preset?
 

shredi knight

Power User
Holy s$(/ that sounds glorious! I'd love to try that patch. Great playing too.
Ok Shredi, that totally kicked ass! Would you mind sharing the preset?


Thanks guys. Technically speaking, that patch doesn't really exist anymore. I've since changed the Amp model (to the IIC++), & all it's settings, switched to a different Tone Match block (I'll explain below), a different Drive model, added a Graphic EQ , and so on....


I've been planning on sharing the new incarnation of the patch for awhile now, but I'm a perfectionist and I never feel like it's finished or good enough (there's always another tweak that will make it better! :D). When I do share it, I first want to make a new demo clip with better playing to go along with the patch when it's posted. It will have to be a bundle patch, as it uses 2 user cabs. I'll try to get on doing that as soon as the 6.01 firmware is released because Cliff is putting the 12AX7B preamp tube model back in it, which is my favorite. So stay tuned.:)


In the mean time, I can give you some settings and tips to get you a patch that is pretty close to mine. This is a LOW VOLUME patch. If you crank this through your monitors it will be way too bright and probably take your head off.:D A lot of credit should go to forum member Dimebucker, as this patch evolved from the amp matches he made of a real Mesa Boogie Mark IV (which really makes this a sort of hybrid tone, since I'm using the IIC++ Amp model and not one of the Mark IV's).


First, go here and download Dimebucker's "Mesa Boogie Mark IV TM 3 .syx" patch. You can also download the "TM 2" patch. It's has the tone match block I used in the clip and I have a version of my new patch that uses it as well:


http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/original-mark-iv-lead-channel-tone-matching-tips-and-tricks-are-welcome.84408/page-2#post-1027760


Then go here and download the "MB Trad 4x12 V30 57 08.syx" cab IR. You can also try the "Alu Framus 4x12 V30 57 01.syx", though I never cared much for it: (scroll to the bottom of the first post for both):


http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/original-mark-iv-lead-channel-tone-matching-tips-and-tricks-are-welcome.84408/




Load the patch and make the following changes (any parameters not mentioned stay at default):


- Delete the FX Loop block



- Add a Drive block in front of the Amp block and change it to the T808 OD model with these settings:

(PG1)
Drive: 0.00
Level: 2.00 (2.00 is unity gain on this model, give or take. It's purpose is to tighten the tone and give it more punch, plus add some character with the mid boost settings that are next.)

(EQ)
Mid: 4.04 dB
Mid Freq: 807.2 Hz



- Reset the Amp block and change it to the USAIIC++ model with these settings:

(PRE)
Input Drive: 8.16
Overdrive: 8.62
Bass: 1.00
Mid: 5.00 (Fat switch on)
Treble: 8.90 (If there is too much overall gain after setting the Treble, turn the Overdrive down to taste. Changing it won't affect the character of the gain like altering the Input Drive or the Treble settings would.)

(PWR)
Presence: to taste (Set it to get the desired level of brightness. You may want to wait to do that until after the rest of the signal chain has been dialed in. Anywhere from 3.00 to 5.00 is typical. I have mine at 4.55)

Master Volume: 4.00

(SPKR)
Low Res: 5.89

(EQ)
80: 8.13
240: 2.61
750: -5.50
2200: 3.00
6600: 8.00

(ADV)
Preamp Tube Type: 12AX7B (Edit - Changed this from the 12AX7A JJ, to my preferred Tube type, now that the 12AX7B is back with firmware 6.01.)




- Reset the Cab block and load the "MB Trad 4x12 V30 57 08.syx" cab IR, then add these settings:

(PG2)
Preamp Mode: High Quality

(PRE)
Preamp Type: Tape 50ws

(MIX)
Motor Drive: 0.82


- Parametric EQ:

Set F5 to 0.00


Left to right, the signal chain should be: Drive/Amp/TM/Cab/ParaEQ. You'll definitely want to add your preferred method of gating, as this patch has a lot of gain and is noisy without any.



That's about it, you can tweak from there. My actual patch has a second Amp block (still the IIC++ model, but with a couple changes to the settings, ran parallel to Amp 1) that blends with the first, a second Cab block with a different user IR that blends with the first, more elaborate settings with the Parametric EQ and a Graphic EQ at the end. But like I said, these settings will get you close. I also have my amp tone panned all the way to the right so it only comes out of one of my studio monitors. I just don't like the spread-out sound of the amp tone in stereo in any of my patches. When it's in stereo, it seems to be brighter, so you may have to turn the Presence down more than I suggested.


If anyone tries these, please let me know how you like them.

Thanks & have fun :)
 
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randyvanmartini

Power User
Wow Shredi, thanks for taking the time to write that out! I went through it and got everything set up, and yes, talk about take your head off!.....lol. But yeah, after turning the pres. down, I was able to turn up quite a bit and it was close...really close. Before I knew it an hour and a half went by! Sounds sooo good. Thanks again!
 

Se7en

Inspired
Same here IIC++ rawks, with classic V shaped mark EQ
Sounds so great with my matrix and EVM speakers
Crunch and leads are crushing, I don't use other Usa or triaxis sims anylonger
 

shredi knight

Power User
Wow Shredi, thanks for taking the time to write that out! I went through it and got everything set up, and yes, talk about take your head off!.....lol. But yeah, after turning the pres. down, I was able to turn up quite a bit and it was close...really close. Before I knew it an hour and a half went by! Sounds sooo good. Thanks again!
You're welcome & glad they worked so well for you. My patches have always seemed to translate well for other users for some reason, even going back to when I was rocking a Line6 Vetta 2. I only wish the opposite was true. :(

I edited the settings to change the Preamp Tube Type to the 12AXYB model in the Amp block. now that it's back with Firmware 6.01. I didn't realize until I A/B'd them (or "X/Y'd" them, to be completely accurate ;)), how much brighter the JJ tube made the tone than the 12AX7B. That patch does not need to be any brighter. :D


Anybody else try the settings? Would love to have some more feedback (even if you didn't like them).

Thanks. :)
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
You're welcome & glad they worked so well for you. My patches have always seemed to translate well for other users for some reason, even going back to when I was rocking a Line6 Vetta 2. I only wish the opposite was true. :(

I edited the settings to change the Preamp Tube Type to the 12AXYB model in the Amp block. now that it's back with Firmware 6.01. I didn't realize until I A/B'd them (or "X/Y'd" them, to be completely accurate ;)), how much brighter the JJ tube made the tone than the 12AX7B. That patch does not need to be any brighter. :D


Anybody else try the settings? Would love to have some more feedback (even if you didn't like them).

Thanks. :)
Those settings sound pretty sick even though I'm playing a Strat.

Why the Preamp in the cab block but no preamp drive, saturation, bass, mid or treble?

And I didn't understand what you meant by:

"- Parametric EQ:

Set F5 to 0.00"

The PEQ only has a high shelf in it?
 

shredi knight

Power User
Those settings sound pretty sick even though I'm playing a Strat.

Why the Preamp in the cab block but no preamp drive, saturation, bass, mid or treble?

And I didn't understand what you meant by:

"- Parametric EQ:

Set F5 to 0.00"

The PEQ only has a high shelf in it?

??? - The PEQ should also have a low shelf cut in it as well. That's it's primary function. These are the settings for it:

(F1)
Freq: 122.5
Q: 0.695
Gain: -12.00
Type: Shelving


Those setting show up for me when I download Dimebucker's patches, don't know why not for you (maybe double check or try again). :confused: Without that cut, the tone is very bass heavy & boomy.

The preamp is active simply because it sounds different with it than it does without it, and I prefer how it sounds with it. Granted, the Tape 50ws does seem to be the most transparent of the preamp types, but there is still a noticeable difference with it engaged. To me it sounds smoother, whereas without it, the cab sounds more raw.

Thanks for trying & glad you liked them. :)
 
Last edited:

barhrecords

Axe-Master
??? - The PEQ should also have a low shelf cut in it as well. That's it's primary function. These are the settings for it:

(F1)
Freq: 122.5
Q: 0.695
Gain: -12.00
Type: Shelving


Those setting show up for me when I download Dimebucker's patches, don't know why not for you (maybe double check or try again). :confused: Without that cut, the tone is very bass heavy & boomy.

The preamp is active simply because it sounds different with it than it does without it, and I prefer how it sounds with it. Granted, the Tape 50ws does seem to be the most transparent of the preamp types, but there is still a noticeable difference with it engaged. To me it sounds smoother, whereas without it, the cab sounds more raw.

Thanks for trying & glad you liked them. :)
Yes the PEQ is as you say. It is a low shelf cut.

I was confused about your F5 comment in the first post you made.
 

shredi knight

Power User
Yes the PEQ is as you say. It is a low shelf cut.

I was confused about your F5 comment in the first post you made.

F1 is a low self cut & F5 is a high shelf boost. Back when these patches were new, the high boost was necessary and they didn't sound way too bright like they do now (take a listen to Dimebucker's sample clip to hear what they sounded like). Little by little, as the firmware updates progressed, I lowered the amount of the high boost because it was becoming less and less needed, until it wasn't needed at all (in truth, on the actual patch, there is a very small boost of 0.09, with a slightly lower frequency & more narrow Q that probably only my dog ears can hear - or at least I think I can hear :p).
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
F1 is a low self cut & F5 is a high shelf boost. Back when these patches were new, the high boost was necessary and they didn't sound way too bright like they do now (take a listen to Dimebucker's sample clip to hear what they sounded like). Little by little, as the firmware updates progressed, I lowered the amount of the high boost because it was becoming less and less needed, until it wasn't needed at all (in truth, on the actual patch, there is a very small boost of 0.09, with a slightly lower frequency & more narrow Q that probably only my dog ears can hear - or at least I think I can hear :p).
Thanks for the follow ups and sharing. Love this aspect of the Fractal ecosystem. :)
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
The settings @shredi knight posted are really cool.

I have a IIC+ (not ++) preset that I really like.

I'm not sure where my preset came from, I'm sure its from a forum download with some of my own tweaks. But never owning a Boogie myself, my preset is more generic, sounds more like Santana than Metallica :)
 
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