Man your guitar sound rocks, but.......

S

SimonDreyer

Inspired
Hi Folks, I know I have touched on this before but, screw it, I'm going to bring it up again. I have been listening to some of the demos of all the amazing sounds that this machine can produce and keep being stunned by one problem, Timing !!!.
If you can't play in time to a beat, you can't play!!!, That's it, I'm sorry, Threre is no F***n point. If you want to sit in your bedroom and make amazing tracks for your own consumption, then that is just great, you do that! But if you want to play in a band or just have a chill jam with your mates YOU HAVE TO PLAY IN TIME!!!!!!! This is not optional, This is not reaching for some dream, This is not me putting my unreal expectations on you. Music is all about rhythm, you must play in time.
If you can't play in time to a metronome, you can't play in time to a drummer, whatever you believe. Learn to play in perfect time with the beat, then apply your dynamics.
PRACTICE WITH A METRONOME.
 
I agree about timing, that comes from playing with people IMHO. Being in tune is another peave.... Guthrie would tend to disagree with you on the metranome, as would I. Playing and learning songs will help develop that. To quote Guthrie "you cant learn Stevies shuffle from playing with a metronome".
 
Erm, why would you not use a metronome? You can learn anything with a score and a metronome.
 
I enjoy practicing to a groovin' drum beat or just a tasty FM station - very good for timing & feel.
 
I tend to think the simplicity of a metronome is more required for high-level jazz playing where drummers are trying to trick you all the time and you have to be your own metronome!

For pop/rock etc. IMO it's possible to keep good time with the live vibe of the loud drums or a drum track at home, when you may not be able to do this all the time with a metronome. The difference is a bit like not getting a part down at home and live it flows easily.

I'm also convinced you need to feel pretty good in your skin and have that certain confidence (or a lot of experience) to have real good time. If you're the less confident type, you might never get there, or have ups and downs (like me).
 
One of the best music books I've ever read: Victor Wooten's "the Music Lesson"... Pick up a copy and give it to your friends who have problems with one or more aspects of music...it covers them all: the groove, timing, scales, dynamics, and more.
 
Ahhh so that's why Jimi, SRV, BB King, Santana, Eddie, Rusty Cooley are sooooooooo awesome. They use metronomes! pffttt...:roll


Timing is a must, metronomes aren't.
 
Besides playing in a couple of bands and regular jam sessions and the occasional recording session with a variety of people, I also play on our church worship band and we use a click track. We have for years. We have a lot of folks who rotate through and it always amazes me how many people struggle with the click, even drummers sometimes.

We also play with drum loops occasionally. I've noticed that most people do better with loops, but that the single click, click, click with all that space in between seems to give them opportunity to wander rhythmically. Doubling the tempo so that you're playing to 1/8 notes helps if its slow, but were usually at 100 bpm or more and it isn't necessary.

Singers rotating through are notorious for resisting even putting the click in their ear monitors and will often be quite a bit off. For the singers that don't think timing is that important and their focus is on pitch only, we have a saying. "If you're off time, you're off pitch" Think about it.

Ok so timing/rhythm is very important. I think most musicians want to be at least competent as a musician, but often they don't even know their off. Of course its a matter of how far off. We've all heard quantized midi stuff and I believe that perfection is not the goal, but yeah some of the stuff I hear on the internet is way too off for my taste.

The problem is how do you tell somebody they're off? Especially in a forum setting where it seems amazingly easy to offend.

At least in bands or a recording session you can say "hey let's do that again and let's see if we can tighten it up" , but here you're going to hurt someone's feelings. We may think we're doing them a favor, maybe even giving them a gift, but if we don't package that gift very carefully it won't be opened or received.

I'm with you, but I'm glad you didn't mention any names or particular posts.

Edit: I just noticed I'm no longer a Junior Member but a full fledged "Member" yay.
 
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Playing in time is important but it is a fact that some people are just not musically inclined. It's commendable but there has to come a time those people need to hang it up and find another hobby.
 
One thing to keep in mind: remember the context in which the poster of a demo track makes his/her post. If they are just posting a track to showcase a tone they created, then timing isn't the most important aspect of their demo. If they are posting a track that includes a full mix, and they are asking for feedback of the song itself, then by all means... give constructive criticism if the timing is off.

Just sayin'.... :)
 
Like any other musical asset, you need to learn the rules before you start breaking them. Playing in time is very important in groove and beat based music.

The most important factor for a player to be in time is listening. When playing with a band I know my part so well it can be on auto pilot. Then I can spend nearly all of my attention on what everyone else is playing. I'm just shocked by the number of acts I see where everyone is concentrating on their own parts while being oblivious to the other players. That's why so few bands sound like "bands" anymore. Listening seems to have skipped a generation for the most part. Of course when the other players are bad, tuning them out is a defense mechanism.

If you've ever played with a very good classical musician you get a real sense of how elastic and nebulous their sense of time is. Another great experience even though I love tight music. Listen to Keith Emerson and how he pushes and pulls time. Sometimes he ignores it completely if the mood strikes him.
 
I hate these kind of threads, you know the ones that take the form "if you can't do xxxx, then you have no business being in our club." Since the definition of music is pretty broad and subjective, then as far as I am concerned anybody can create music. Whether anybody wants to listen to that creation is their business.

That being said, developing a good time sense is greatly beneficial for many forms of music. The key is listening to the right clock whether it be metronome, others, or the internal. Some people are difficult to follow; but when you're an accompanist as you are in a worship and praise band setting, you do your best to follow because that's your job. Certainly, playing people with good time sense is great, but I'll take passion over precision any day of the week and twice on Sundays. After all, music is about communicating the passion; and if you haven't got that, you really are screwed.
 
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Of course I agree on the time issue. BUT:

A "bedroom-player" is just as hapy and proud of the great sound he can produce with this machine(and other). I think that it would be a shame if we create an atmosphere in this forum, where they would be afraid to post the fruits of their tweaking.

I am one of those players that is not the greatest technical and fast players.(I play- And sing cover music) Therfore the abillity to dial in the right sound for a speciffic tune is one of my strenghts.(No matter what gear I played this has been the case)

The Axe is a great tool in that tone quest. AND a valuable piece of gear live on stage.

SO KEEP POSTING !

AAEN

PS: Getting my II next month - Hopefully.
 
I had the great honor, some years back, to play with Chick Corea. He was kind enough, after the show, to ask me if I wanted some musical pointers. Are you kidding???? Chick wants to tutor me on anything musical? Bring it on!!!!
He spent three hours with me. he only spoke about ONE thing. Time. Rhythm. Whatever you want to call it.

He praised my musicality and improvisational skill and told me the one thing I should really work on, like most guitarists - he said, is time. You gotta be able to play ON the beat before you can causatively play ahead or behind or stretch or whatever with time. So the OP, IMO, is 100% correct. I took the advice and I'm still working on it, 20 years later.

Epilogue: Last time I played with Chick, he didn't mention time ;)
 
Thomas-Hawk said:
One thing to keep in mind: remember the context in which the poster of a demo track makes his/her post. If they are just posting a track to showcase a tone they created, then timing isn't the most important aspect of their demo. If they are posting a track that includes a full mix, and they are asking for feedback of the song itself, then by all means... give constructive criticism if the timing is off.

Just sayin'.... :)
Click to expand...

+1
 
Sixstring said:
Playing in time is important but it is a fact that some people are just not musically inclined. It's commendable but there has to come a time those people need to hang it up and find another hobby.
Click to expand...

Most weekend golfers don't have PGA ambitions.

Instead of worrying about what others or doing or how well they are doing it, focus on improving yourself. Let's say by being less critical to start.
 
I believe Chick also said (although it could of been someone else of similar musical prowess) that one of the marks of being a good musician is knowing "what not to play". Which gets back to one of the previous comments. Its a lot about listening to the rest of the group. Solo acts are one exception.

Unfortunately (IMO) a lot of music these days is not about interaction with others. That's one of the main things I like about music, all the various things different musicians bring to the table and that magic that happens when it all goes right.

That being said its even more important that you enjoy doing it. If somebody isn't good it doesn't mean they can't enjoy playing or recording even if we don't care for what they do.

Now if you're in my band it's going to be a different story.

Oh and I have to mention fw5 rocks. Huge leap forward. I was happy before. Now I'm ecstatic.

I wonder why anybody would say they can't get a good sound. Just tweak the knobs. All the sounds and feel are in there.
 
Clicks are great until you get into difficult time signatures. Then clicks sometimes become more confusing (or in the case of some computer tabbing programs the metronomes screw up the timing) then they are worth. I agree that timing is really important but I think we all already know that. If someone sucks they have fun with music and make something their own and you shouldn't have any say in the matter. And in the case of complex effects sometimes being off time creates amazing dynamics that just won;t work being in time. Chill out dude.
 
Clicks are just a reference.
Want a great exercise? Put on a metronome and clap your hands to the beat. Make the metronome disappear. If you can hear it, you're off!
The metronome is best used, first, without your instrument. Just clap or tap your foot.
Try it with your band HA HA HA! All band members around a metronome. Just make some agreements not to tear each other's eyes out before the drill.
I tell you. When you're good at this, all the band members CREATE the rhythm and no one FOLLOWS. Even with a click. The click just becomes one of the players, so to speak.
Best drill on rhythm I know. Try it at 100, pretty easy. Try it at 80. Try it at 60!
When you can make the metronome disappear for a good period of time, then you can say that your time is good. Before that, you're fooling yourself.
WHEN you can do that just clapping your hands, then do it with a guitar. It'll be easy.
 
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