Man Cave/Studio ...from the ground up!!

[200man]

Shag, orange and on the walls too.

berber shag?

 

[moshwitz]

Sup?
That is a great blank canvas for sure. Before you wild with the double walls and floating floors, Etc. trying to soundproof it,, unless you are into spending 3X more than you think you want to put into it..... and want some great ideas....and info to do it right...

Start here
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

There is everything that you could want to know in this forum that applies to building, soundproofing, treating etc. studios and spaces like yours.

I got hooked up with fairly well tuned modular sound treatment cabinetry and speaker soffit designs that i built and installed into a room in my house from the main guy, as my1200sf building I started to make my studio in ended up as my woodshop/ CNC room.

I learned tons about sound control, treatment, room tuning/ testing that I have applied not only in my own space but spaces for other bands studios, jam rooms and a couple home theaters.

Here is a link to my old build thread form years ago.( although I did just redo this room a bit ;-) )
http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9401

Anyway,,, good luck with your build and keep the pics coming brother

MOSHON
DAVE

 

[Bman]

Great info here!

 

[dr bonkers]

This formula is vitally important to consider when figuring out the final dimensions of your room: http://realtraps.com/modecalc.htm

What you want to do is use shims at strategic points to knock the walls and ceiling out of a parallel surface situation to avoid resonances.

Move the resonances to non-musical note frequencies.

I have found over the years that, acoustically, OSB works better than plywood to eat up frequencies when laying down floor sheeting or the solid side of a portable baffle..

Likewise, rock wool works better than fiberglass when filling baffles.

For my wife's and my home office that we also use to listen to music at gig volume, bookshelves loaded with books against the walls were a nice, cost effective, and functional mid-range/high frequency diffuser. She can listen to her YouTube at 100 dB in the room while I am asleep in the bedroom next to it undisturbed and protecting my ears.

Air-gapped door within a door also helps a lot.

 

[yeky83]

What you want to do is use shims at strategic points to knock the walls and ceiling out of a parallel surface situation to avoid resonances.

You don’t avoid resonances by putting walls and ceiling out of parallel with each other. Its purpose is to help avoid first reflections and flutter echos.

Non-parallel room surfaces make resonances more unpredictable, not avoidable.

Move the resonances to non-musical note frequencies.

How do you move resonances to non-musical note frequencies? Non-parallel walls shift modal resonance frequencies only a few Hz provided volume is about the same.

 

[dr bonkers]

You don’t avoid resonances by putting walls and ceiling out of parallel with each other. Its purpose is to help avoid first reflections and flutter echos.

Non-parallel room surfaces make resonances more unpredictable, not avoidable.


How do you move resonances to non-musical note frequencies? Non-parallel walls shift modal resonance frequencies only a few Hz provided volume is about the same.

If you know the math, it is possible. That is why people like Alan Sides were paid large amounts of dollars to engineer good sounding rooms.

I have been lucky to physically visit a few of the rooms. If you have experienced them, then you would know it is possible to make a room that does not resonate on certain audible notes.

On the other end of the spectrum, one can create an anechoic chamber if the idea is to eliminate all reflections & modes, but that environment sounds really dead and unnatural. But if engineered with the proper dimensions and materials, it is truly predictable.

 

[BBN]

Truly down the road of soundproofing you need walls within walls nothing touching so to speak... .touching = transfer vibrations..

This.

I built a sound proof room in the basement of my new house.
I was lucky to find a local guy (Sonic Space) who designs rooms like this.
The only real magic in his design was the separation of the jam room walls, from the house structure.
It's not hard to do, but it makes a HUGE difference.

A couple other tips/tricks:
- Surface mount electrical (so only small holes in the wall for cable to come through)
- Heavy dense doors (mine were custom made by a buddy of mine)
- 'Zero Seals' around the door frames (like the trim around a walk in fridge)
- Create as few of holes as possible in the walls (I have a surface mount AC/Heat unit and two grates for air in/air out - and a fan on the outside of the room to create constant airflow)

Full hard rock band playing in the basement, wife and baby one floor above (and a few rooms over) watching TV peacefully.

It wasn't cheap, but it was money well spent.

 

[ChristThePhone]

This.

I built a sound proof room in the basement of my new house.
I was lucky to find a local guy (Sonic Space) who designs rooms like this.
The only real magic in his design was the separation of the jam room walls, from the house structure.
It's not hard to do, but it makes a HUGE difference.

A couple other tips/tricks:
- Surface mount electrical (so only small holes in the wall for cable to come through)
- Heavy dense doors (mine were custom made by a buddy of mine)
- 'Zero Seals' around the door frames (like the trim around a walk in fridge)
- Create as few of holes as possible in the walls (I have a surface mount AC/Heat unit and two grates for air in/air out - and a fan on the outside of the room to create constant airflow)

Full hard rock band playing in the basement, wife and baby one floor above (and a few rooms over) watching TV peacefully.

It wasn't cheap, but it was money well spent.

How does one isolate the floor contact ? We used to put our speakers onto tennis balls back in the 80s but a whole room ?

 

[Rick]

That’s a nice room! And a man won’t worry about other men’s opinions. Lol. Build it how you like it. The sign above my door:
My space in the house.

 

[yeky83]

If you know the math, it is possible. That is why people like Alan Sides were paid large amounts of dollars to engineer good sounding rooms.

Do you know the math, or could you point me to a source? I'm not arguing that good sounding rooms aren't possible BTW.

I have been lucky to physically visit a few of the rooms. If you have experienced them, then you would know it is possible to make a room that does not resonate on certain audible notes.

Not through the means of non-parallel walls, and somehow shifting resonant frequencies of a room in any significant measure. That was the point I was making.

On the other end of the spectrum, one can create an anechoic chamber if the idea is to eliminate all reflections & modes, but that environment sounds really dead and unnatural.

Anechoic chambers do not eliminate all reflections, and they certainly do not eliminate modes.
An "anechoic chamber" isn't 100% absorptive, and is commonly defined by 99% absorption above a certain cut-off frequency, like 100 or 150 Hz (cus to try to absorb down to 20 Hz, they'd need to cover the room with absorption wedges 14 feet long). 99% absorption equates to a 20 dB reduction of reflections.
"Bolt area" ratio is commonly used to achieve favorable room modes, but they are not eliminated, unless you are in a room so big that it's essentially a free field.
Anechoic chambers are super quiet though

 

[Geezerjohn]

Avocado and burnt orange with beads hung in the doorway.

 

[BBN]

That’s a nice room! And a man won’t worry about other men’s opinions. Lol. Build it how you like it. The sign above my door: View attachment 46996
My space in the house.

Wow that is a nice sign!
Where did you get it?

 

[BBN]

How does one isolate the floor contact ? We used to put our speakers onto tennis balls back in the 80s but a whole room ?

For me, floor contact was not an issue since it's a basement. I have carpet over the concrete.
But it's been an issue for me in the past and hockey pucks are a decent solution.
IMO (which is not scientific), the hockey pucks only ensured that moisture wouldn't hit any of the items.
Sound waves are going to hit that floor no matter what.

In the case of his above the garage room, I would consider some type of floating floor, for separation.
Again, why it's a great idea to have a professional help with the design.

More to the story:
It cost me (I think) $1800 for the design plan alone.
The guy who did it also found a person to build it (normal builder), and he actually helped with the build (working for the builder).
At the same time, my bass player was doing the same thing at his house.
My designer gave him a price for the plan and build, but my bass player thought it was too expensive.
So he hired a builder that was a friend, and they built his room just putting as many layers as possible to deaden what sound left the room.
Because it was trial and error, there was a lot of rework and at the completion of the project, he spent the same money (if not more) and his result is not as good as mine.

"Cry Once" is the saying I believe.

 

[Rick]

Wow that is a nice sign!
Where did you get it?

I was walking through the river venders alongside the water in Savannah, Georgia and met a man there who made whatever sort of signs you wanted. I don't recall his name, but you might be able to search the net for him.

 

[GotMetalBoy]

No AC up there but a portable can be had for cheap

You will probably want to run a separate circuit breaker box and grounding rod to the room and try to run the portable AC on it's own circuit because it can cause very loud pops and noise in your guitar signal when it turns on and off. I've had the issue with my portable AC and dehumidifier. The portable AC is going to leak a lot of sound out the window.

You may also want to look into spray foam insulation. You can buy DIY kits but make sure you follow all the warnings and don't skimp on the face mask because you don't want to breath any of that stuff in. Also, if you use the cans of Great Stuff spray foam for small spots, wear disposable gloves because that is not "great stuff" to get on your hands. It took almost a month to come off.

 

[dr bonkers]

Do you know the math, or could you point me to a source? I'm not arguing that good sounding rooms aren't possible BTW.

Not through the means of non-parallel walls, and somehow shifting resonant frequencies of a room in any significant measure. That was the point I was making.

Anechoic chambers do not eliminate all reflections, and they certainly do not eliminate modes.

Check the link in my first source.

If that is not intensive enough, there are more complex formulas you can find with a search.

If your main goal is acoustic isolation and avoidance of room resonances that are actual notes, and excessive reflections, it's possible to get 95% there. I have worked in several rooms like that.

The other 5% is about knowing where those flaws are and compensating for them with eq or spending tens of thousands of dollars trying to build and acoustically engineer them out, only to have a listener hear the product in iPhone buds or really imperfect listening environment on hyped up speakers anyways.

 

[Ed Rogers]

I built a smaller room over the winter. A couple of years ago I got a wild hair to build a garage. The attached garage was only 12x20, and you could barely open your doors if you pulled in. I built a two story 26x36 garage myself, took a year and a half.....

I finally got around to the attached garage. Insulation, drywall, moisture barrier on walls and floor. Floating floor finished it out. Surprisingly, still small when you fill it full of amps, drum set, etc. I also use the space for a home theater, which I use more than anything else. I still have to get heat out there and insulate the carriage doors for the winter.

I have a small house, and my previous house had a separate room for a home theater. When I moved all the equipment went into storage, having a massive home theater in your living room is a pain, they are better to have in a secluded room.

 

[fractalz]

Remember, sound falls off as 1/r^2, so distance is your friend from a neighbors point of view. Maybe get a SPL meter and see how much sound you are generating outside - then you'll know what you need to address.

Air gaps transmit high frequencies. You need mass to absorb low frequencies. Your windows are the weakest link, so doing a lot to the walls may not totally pay off if the windows are just speakers to the outside...

I'm not an expert, but I'm paying *a lot* to have a pro-designed studio built right now. It'll be "sound proof" to the upstairs with three layers of drywall, non-touching walls-within-walls, expensive doors, etc, etc, etc.

My current studio is my family room and my neighbors (10' away) have never complained about my 85dB reference level mixing. It's virtually inaudible in our back yard. Granted, I use the Axe instead of amps and a Roland e-drum kit.

 

[yeky83]

Check the link in my first source.

If that is not intensive enough, there are more complex formulas you can find with a search.

If your main goal is acoustic isolation and avoidance of room resonances that are actual notes, and excessive reflections, it's possible to get 95% there. I have worked in several rooms like that.

Again, I don't have anything to say against your first source, or that one can work around room resonances.

The thing I wanted to point out about your original post is the notion that you can avoid resonances with non-parallel walls, or that you can avoid resonant frequencies by shifting it by any significant measure. That's a common misconception, but not true. That's all I wanted to point out.

Here's an example photo for good measure. Modes still exist, just unpredictably so.

 

[golden blue]

This is what I read. I doubt I could ever 100% sound proof it, being built on top of the existing garage. I can do a lot to limit the noise. I think I could actually get it framed with aluminum inside the wall space to provide an air gap, plus the aluminum framing is cheap. But I'd also need a floor that's separated from the plywood floor that's installed.

I'll probably do what I can and feel out what the neighbors can tolerate. I've got an AX8, so I don't need to crank it to get the tone and my buddy has a Roland elec kit.

+1 on the Roland EKit