Made the jump: RJM MMGT/22! (And the learning experience)

You'll not be disappointed. I own the MFC for my XL+, but it collects dust right now and I just own the Mastermind LT. So easy to edit and use. Good for everything, effects, presets, scenes, etc.
 
I love my GT16, and I guarantee you will too! So easy to program and is so versatile. The RJM customer support is incredible too, I had issues with the buttons on mine and Ron said they had since upgraded them and he sent me all 16 to replace no fuss to him at all! Such a legend.
 
I am indeed looking forward to it. FedEx says delivery by end of day Saturday, and we play Friday night so I’ll be available when it arrives. Prepare yourselves for newbie questions. ;)
 
yek said:
The fun part is how to figure out and decide what the preferred workflow / layout will be.
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I can totally see that! I'm going to work on getting my basic setup in, then I am going to do a different layout with a newly constructed preset loaded up with scenes/channels and see if I can combine it all into one or two presets. There will be a lot of manual reading ahead!

Initial Impressions:

It isn't as huge as I expected, and that's good. Definitely bigger in all directions than an MFC-101, but not the tabletop I thought it might be. Double boxed in fitted boxes, which is something that always seems to precede a nicely made item. And there is no disappointment there. Everything on it looks well made, and well thought out. I mean this in the best way when I say this looks like it belongs connected to the Axe Fx line. It suits the III well in that regard: high tech, but not gaudy.

I purchased the phantom power box, as I wasn't sure the cables in my Rocktron adaptor cable were up to carrying the full load. I have it as a backup, and feel either would work in the short term. Connected everything, and flipped on the power. Pretty! Now I know some may not care, but all of those colors just look damn good on the pedal. Again, it looks like something that is very high end and full-featured; a no expense spared sort of appearance. I really like it.

Right out of the box, it'll change presets and banks to get you making noise. The screens are very clear and readable. I do wonder how that will be in bright sun, and welcome anyone's comments who has used it outdoors as to how visible the displays are there. But in my music room, they are easily readable from all angles and the different colors and views make it apparent that you have a huge variety of options for visual cues on where you are and what is selected.

Menus: Mercy... the options are incredible. Every button can be whatever you want it to be, it appears. In any color. Different colors when on and off, or no color. Commands, pages upon pages of options (even some about pages), the ability to have every button do something different in every preset... crazy. This has to be the most configurable midi controller out there.

Connections: I like the options here. Like the FAS pedal, there are 4 expression pedal inputs, 4 external switches (groups in pairs), a USB B connector for your computer interface, and a USB A connector for flash drives (LOVE that, instant backup and reload without a computer), 4 midi connections (2 each in/out on standard and XLR midi). 12V in for the power supply if you're not using the phantom power, and two 9 volt outs to power other devices on your board. More options than I have seen anywhere.

So far I have only done a few basic items, such as naming devices, renaming some presets, but everything looks to be designed to edit away with no computer at all. I fired up the MMGT editor and, as expected, it is so much easier. But I am going to learn it on the pedal itself first so I don't freak out if I need a change come gig time, then will have some fun in the editor.

Happy with my purchase one day in. Between the Axe Fx III and this, I have to admit I am swimming in possibilities, to the point of distraction. I will have to step back and design a workflow, as Yek says, to give some direction to the setup. I suppose that, if I am making any point at all here, I am saying it doesn't appear there is a limitation to how you might want your workflow to... flow. I can't imagine a setup I'd like to use that isn't possible here. Updates to follow. :)
 
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Rick said:
The screens are very clear and readable. I do wonder how that will be in bright sun, and welcome anyone's comments who has used it outdoors as to how visible the displays are there
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I was wondering that too and read a lot of threads on that subject. Sounds like in sunlight you won't see the colors, but you will be able to read the screens. You'll have to let us know if that's the case.

Rick said:
It isn't as huge as I expected, and that's good. Definitely bigger in all directions than an MFC-101, but not the tabletop I thought it might be.
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Funny thing is that I've been shying away from the GT-22 knowing that it's a little bigger than the MFC in all directions. But last night I kept hitting the wrong switches on my MFC thinking to myself, "This would be easier if the switches were just a little further apart". Curious your thoughts on that.

Thanks for the update so far. This is good info. Even when the FC becomes available, I'm still going to keep the GT as an option of consideration. It's a great looking unit.
 
Fro said:
Funny thing is that I've been shying away from the GT-22 knowing that it's a little bigger than the MFC in all directions. But last night I kept hitting the wrong switches on my MFC thinking to myself, "This would be easier if the switches were just a little further apart". Curious your thoughts on that.
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I don't have either of my MFCs anymore, so I don't know exactly how far apart those were. I would say the MMGT is marginally wider spacing, but just a touch. The MMGT is nearly 4 inches wider, but the button distance from each edge is greater due to the screens above each. Measuring the outer edges of the buttons, it is about 15 3/8" button 1 to 6. That's 3/8" less than the MFC is overall wide. Center to center of each button is 3". These are just rough measuring tape measurements, not scale drawing stuff, but should give you something to compare. Just using photos, I'd guesstimate they are about 1/2" farther apart, center to center.

I'll let you know on the lighting thing. We have several outdoor shows in the coming months, so I will find out soon!
 
Rick said:
Center to center of each button is 3".
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Thanks for the info! I just did a super quick check on the MFC (disclaimer, without my glasses on) and it looks to be about 2 7/8" side to side from the center of each switch. It's 2 5/8" top to bottom from the center of each switch. My guess is that's where you will see a bigger difference, because of the screen.
 
Center to center is 3" on the MMGT, the outside to outside measurement was for the first row of buttons. It's a shade more space, but I don't know if it would be enough to tell.

Discovery #2: Expression pedals. The MMGT is reverse polarity from the FAS standard. Normal polarity will work, but it loads 90% of the range into the first 50% of movement, then the top half does very little. I have a Mission SP-1 that I wasn't using, and it's not like I am hurting for switches right now, so I disconnected the toe switch output and wired it in reverse polarity with the standard output. This way I can use output 1 if I plug straight into the Axe FX (as I sometimes do), and plug output 2 into the MMGT. Works like a charm, covers the whole range smoothly, and saves me the need of buying anything else. No money spent is today's win!

This reminds me of my "Ultra" days. Everything a discovery.
 
Update on progress of working with the MMGT:

Several gigs down and the setup continues to progress. Initially, I went for familiarity and duplicated the setup I had on the MFC. This was five presets, a bunch of IAs, and tuner/tap tempo/bank controls. This was plenty serviceable for years, so it seemed a good starting place. Setting the MMGT for this is fairly straightforward, but I think some points are useful here for those considering it as an option:

1. The documentation, though lengthy, is fairly sparse in relation to step-by-step setting up of functions. It didn't take long to figure out the manual would be hundreds of pages long if that was attempted. Further, it will also become obvious that the number of possible combinations of settings are mind-numbing (much like the Axe FX in that sense). So be prepared to ask questions, accept some help from others, and be patient. You won't set this up in an hour and forget it from there. If you could, you simply don't need this level of sophisticated capability.

2. Questions: you're in luck here. Everyone I have talked with who uses this device has been uber-helpful. At the top of that list is Ron, the proprietor of RJM. A quick post in the GT Discussion forum, and an answer will be forthcoming. Do your homework, try to solve your issues, post a detailed question on what you've done and what you are trying to accomplish and someone, normally the man himself, will help get you home. One thing that I found comforting is that Yek (yes, the man, the legend, of Axe FX Wiki fame) also uses one of these. He has a couple of great videos out that demonstrate the operation and how he set his up. Always good to know someone with extensive knowledge of both units is out there.

3. Homework: No matter what forum you frequent, no one likes incessant questions on things that are plainly covered in the manual. I do my best to find my answers if I can. You're always going to be more welcome if you do the same. After that, ask away. The service with RJM in this area has been great.

4. The mind blown condition, and recovery: Like it was on the Axe FX, I continually sit back and say "wow" with this unit. The things it can do surely make it the most capable midi controller for guitar rigs. It seems there is nothing you can do with MIDI that it won't do. That can be overwhelming at first. Just settle in, take a breath, and focus on what you want it to do. Once you put away your preconceived notions and look into "how would I set this up if there were no limitations to what I wanted to do" it becomes obvious that, 1. you probably don't want anything colossally complicated, and 2. you can accomplish what you want fairly directly once you arrange your processes into how you actually want to use them.

Sooooo... what have I done?

I've learned this:

* ANY button can be just about anything. There isn't a preset layout you have to use.
* My setup was built around choice of previously available layouts, and that needed to change.
* There are midi concepts I haven't used (grouping, linking) that are exactly what I needed to solve some issues.
* 16 pages of 22 options per page makes for an astounding number of possible combinations. My useful number of pages so far: 2
* Changeable colors are more helpful than I thought. Different on/off colors, and different colors for different uses works great.
* Lots of colors look nice on the floor at a gig. And people do notice.
* RJM expression pedals are wired backwards. Be prepared to solder or get a reverse cable from BTPA
* I have only scratched the surface.

I have mine now set up with 4 presets, 8 IA block on/off, bank up/down, IA mode and IA store, tuner, tap tempo, and 4 scenes as my base page. The second page has more IA block on/off, Channels on/off for ABCD to the amp block (testing this, and works well), and a few other testing functions. While this works pretty darned good, it has made me know that I need to rethink the whole thing, and start from scratch. What I have found is possible between the Axe FX scenes and channels, and what I can access and group together in the MMGT points that there is a better way.

And in this case, less is more. Probably 2, no more than 3 presets, using channels and scenes, and I will end up with more than I now have in twice that many presets. I am amazed at what these units will do together, and am very interested in getting them set up in a way that doesn't take much thought to improvise with, and get back to making some music. Because, as cool as they are, these are a means to an end, and not the end itself. It's easy to get wrapped up in the tech and forget that you can always set the Axe FX to one amp/cab, use your volume knob, and play the whole night. I see the light at the end of the tunnel, and the train is picking up steam. Onward....
 
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Oh, and by the way...

That whole "start from scratch" thing isn't as jump-from-the-ledge as it sounds. The MMGT has a USB-B connector for using the editor on your computer, but also has a USB-A slot for a flash drive. You can save multiple incarnations of your setups and load them as needed. So "from scratch" doesn't mean losing previous work. You can always go back. Even on the gig when your computer is miles away. Peace of mind.

Also, having played one gig outdoors in daylight, though not direct sunlight, I can confirm that the color on the screens is much less visible, but the lettering remains clear. That was good to discover first-hand. The way the screen lettering area reverses gives the visual cue to status that the changing colors do with indoor lighting. I assume that this was an intentional design thing, as it works well in both lighting situations; something that one or the other type of visual reference would not quite cover alone. Nice
 
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Fro said:
I've always had an eye on these. It's a very impressive controller. I would be interested in the GT-22, but I'm trying to figure out the logistics of it physically. It seams quite a bit bigger than the MFC-101, and for good reason with the screens for each button.
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Having finally used this on a couple of stages, I dispensed with the pedal board idea and just put it straight on the floor (as I did with the MFC for quite a while). It hasn't been a problem at all. Here is a quick picture I took while setting up on the first gig. Yes, that is a dance floor right beyond the MMGT. :eek: No issues, other than I elected to add a stand weight to the rear of the mic stand to offset the additional few inches boom length required to accomodate the deeper MMGT housing. It worked without it, but I don't fancy a mic in the teeth, so this was a safety modification! The weight is about 6 pounds, and fastens with a bolt/knob so it comes on and off as needed. You can see it on the rear leg of the stand in the picture. Other than that, it’s set up the same as the MFC-101.

1st gig.JPG
 
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The issue with FAMC liquid foot is NOT customer service "support" it is getting the products out - the availability. So once you have it the support is fine. Just sayin...
 
Stratman68 said:
The issue with FAMC liquid foot is NOT customer service "support" it is getting the products out - the availability. So once you have it the support is fine. Just sayin...
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While I appreciate and have no doubt that that's been your experience, it hasn't been that of others according to what I've read. Many point to trying to get in touch with the company, only to have lengthy MIA periods. I don't have any personal experience with them, except getting on a waiting list and never getting contacted, which seemed in line with some of the stories I'd read. I have no axe to grind either way, I only meant to point out that I have not had that issue personally with Ron at RJM, and those who I have read or commented to me in messages universally praised RJM's customer service. By comparison, well... for me, there wasn't one. And that's a shame because the people who do use Liquid Foot units have all praised the quality of the product itself.
 
By the way... further tales from the road:

I did play an outdoor concert series event yesterday in bright, direct sunlight. As expected, you don't see the colored backgrounds, but the lettering and reverse screen fonts were very easy to see and gave clear visual cues to what was on/off/available. As evening came on, so did the colors, and it was a smooth transition from one light source to the next. I'm happy with it. Another obvious difference is the sheer size of the screens above every button, and the ability to bold the fonts (suggested to me by @Boogiem and worked very well), which made seeing the letters absolutely simple, even in the brightest light or darker night.

As I get more familiar with live use, I am becoming very comfortable with my setup.
 
Rick said:
By the way... further tales from the road:

I did play an outdoor concert series event yesterday in bright, direct sunlight. As expected, you don't see the colored backgrounds, but the lettering and reverse screen fonts were very easy to see and gave clear visual cues to what was on/off/available. As evening came on, so did the colors, and it was a smooth transition from one light source to the next. I'm happy with it. Another obvious difference is the sheer size of the screens above every button, and the ability to bold the fonts (suggested to me by @Boogiem and worked very well), which made seeing the letters absolutely simple, even in the brightest light or darker night.

As I get more familiar with live use, I am becoming very comfortable with my setup.
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yep i've done a few outdoor shows and no issues with the displays. yes I love the bold too, and big screens, i'm no spring chicken anymore. I loved my LiquidFoot 12+ but after a few videos of me looking down at the pedals for way too long, that was it.
 
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