Lower output pickups + heavier music? Samples?

Hey guys,

So I just recently purchased a PRS SE CU24, looking for some new pickups. I have a couple shredder machines(a Japanese 570 with Evo/AN and a EBMM majesty with sonic ecstasys), so I’m looking for more of an all around guitar with this one.

The times I’ve played lower output pickups I really enjoyed the responsiveness, so I figured with this guitar I’d go with something lower on the output spectrum. Plus it’ll keep the guitar versatile - if I want to play something a little more subtle(seems to be the trend with me these days) I’m not hindering myself.

I’ve looked high and low, and trying to find guys using these style of pickups in samples for heavier music is... well it’s not easy... either that or the sample quality is garbage.

I realize some of the lower output options probably won’t be ideal for heavier music due to loose/muddy bass. Some of the ones I’m considering are the Suhr ssh, ssh+ and Aldrich. SD 59, 78 custom, pearly gates, AIIs, Seth lover(I feel like I’m missing one here). Dimarzio paf pro, 36th anniversary.

I’d like something that doesn’t have flubby bass and has decent clarity as well.

When I say heavier music, I’m not looking to do djent with this guitar, nor black metal or anything too crazy. I’d say the lowest it might see is c standard maybe.

Does anyone have any direct experience with the above options? Samples? Any other options to throw in?

thanks in advance
 
Not sure about the others you mention, but the Aldrich mentioned above is not a low output pickup. As far as examples of low output pickups, not sure about later albums, but pretty sure Eddie used a low output PAF for a lot of the earlier VH albums.

I love the Aldrich pickup as well as the Motor City HotHeads, but again, they’re not low output.
 
I've used Dimarzio's Evolution and X2n as well as Seymour Duncan's JB, Invader and Super Distortion. They all lacked something in the midrange and accented the highs in a way that I didn't care for, they seemed a bit "messy" sounding.

For high gain I have a couple of guitars; one with the Dimarzio Mo' Joe paired with a Dimarzio Pro Track and the other with th Bare Knuckle Black Dogs set, the Black Dogs are the current favorite. I like the clarity and midrange 'grunt' they have. They're like a PAF with attitude.
 
I can't stand high output pickups. They just seem to lack the dynamics I'm after. But then again, I'm not Djenting or Metalling(?). Although, the JB doesn't sound as compressed as it should be measuring around 15k. I like that pickup.
I run a Pearly Gates bridge in my Epi LP and it's pretty much perfect. Throaty and clear. You can crank the gain without it mushing out. Highly recommend.
 
What's the main complaint about the pickups you have now, and what tweaks have you made to your guitar to try and alleviate them? It's a lot easier to recommend stuff once we know exactly what you don't like about the current set and what setup tweaks did or didn't get closer to what you're after.
 
I'm predominantly and metal player using EMG's but I recently got a guitar with BKP Painkillers in and I've never been so impressed with a passive pickup. They have the qualities I love in EMG's but with a little something else. The coil splitting is really sweet too. I have an Ibanez RG752 that I was selling as the stock Dimarzio PAF7's in it are some of the weakest pickups I've ever used and really tainted the guitar for me which is otherwise a great instrument. So I decided if it didn't sell by the new year that I would mod it to suit my needs, main point of which is the pickups and since my BKP revelation I've been trawling the passive world and finding some very interesting options from the likes of Lundgren, Balaguer, Black Diamond and of course BKP.

I currently have a friends Suhr Modern and I find the pickups in it to be very mismatched in output, the bridge being noticeably more output than the middle and neck, switching to the split selections has a profound drop in output that really twists my tits. They sound ok but in their entirety they seem like a poorly matched set to me.

I had a Big Apple strat years ago with Pearly's in that I remember being decent enough for heavy rock tones so they could be a good option for you. I thought I liked JB's but I got a Jackson with a JB set in that sounded way too woolly to me, they also measured in the 17k range so pretty high output. I took them out and put 85/81 in with 24v power and they sound way better IMO than the JB's.

What woods are in the PRS?
 
I'm predominantly and metal player using EMG's but I recently got a guitar with BKP Painkillers in and I've never been so impressed with a passive pickup. They have the qualities I love in EMG's but with a little something else. The coil splitting is really sweet too. I have an Ibanez RG752 that I was selling as the stock Dimarzio PAF7's in it are some of the weakest pickups I've ever used and really tainted the guitar for me which is otherwise a great instrument. So I decided if it didn't sell by the new year that I would mod it to suit my needs, main point of which is the pickups and since my BKP revelation I've been trawling the passive world and finding some very interesting options from the likes of Lundgren, Balaguer, Black Diamond and of course BKP.

I currently have a friends Suhr Modern and I find the pickups in it to be very mismatched in output, the bridge being noticeably more output than the middle and neck, switching to the split selections has a profound drop in output that really twists my tits. They sound ok but in their entirety they seem like a poorly matched set to me.

I had a Big Apple strat years ago with Pearly's in that I remember being decent enough for heavy rock tones so they could be a good option for you. I thought I liked JB's but I got a Jackson with a JB set in that sounded way too woolly to me, they also measured in the 17k range so pretty high output. I took them out and put 85/81 in with 24v power and they sound way better IMO than the JB's.

What woods are in the PRS?
The pickups in the Suhr modern are levelled that way on purpose. They're designed to be used with an amp that's just in the breakup / edge of breakup level. That way you can switch to the bridge pickup for leads and get a more forward distorted tone, use the in-between positions for light rhythm etc.
 
The pickups in the Suhr modern are levelled that way on purpose. They're designed to be used with an amp that's just in the breakup / edge of breakup level. That way you can switch to the bridge pickup for leads and get a more forward distorted tone, use the in-between positions for light rhythm etc.

Yeah its definitely not for me, I much prefer my BKP Caparison.
 
I'm predominantly and metal player using EMG's but I recently got a guitar with BKP Painkillers in and I've never been so impressed with a passive pickup. They have the qualities I love in EMG's but with a little something else. The coil splitting is really sweet too. I have an Ibanez RG752 that I was selling as the stock Dimarzio PAF7's in it are some of the weakest pickups I've ever used and really tainted the guitar for me which is otherwise a great instrument. So I decided if it didn't sell by the new year that I would mod it to suit my needs, main point of which is the pickups and since my BKP revelation I've been trawling the passive world and finding some very interesting options from the likes of Lundgren, Balaguer, Black Diamond and of course BKP.

I currently have a friends Suhr Modern and I find the pickups in it to be very mismatched in output, the bridge being noticeably more output than the middle and neck, switching to the split selections has a profound drop in output that really twists my tits. They sound ok but in their entirety they seem like a poorly matched set to me.

I had a Big Apple strat years ago with Pearly's in that I remember being decent enough for heavy rock tones so they could be a good option for you. I thought I liked JB's but I got a Jackson with a JB set in that sounded way too woolly to me, they also measured in the 17k range so pretty high output. I took them out and put 85/81 in with 24v power and they sound way better IMO than the JB's.

What woods are in the PRS?
Mahogany, maple cap, rosewood board, vintage style trem.

What I’m going for is something with clarity, tight, something that wouldn’t sound out of place playing rock-ish type stuff as well as being able to play metal if I wanted to within reason... I don’t expect to be able to tune down to something ridiculous and it retain its clarity, but going a step or two down wouldn’t be out of the question.

I had one of these guitars back around 2014 - I’m not sure if they’ve changed the pickups since then... I don’t remember the stock pickups being terrible but I don’t remember them being great either.

As far as output, I’m not scared of mid-to-lower end high output so long as it’s not mushy and/or lifeless. I’d like it to retain its dynamics. The lifeless part is the thing I hate about a lot of the higher output pickups. A lot of things you do with your right hand you really have to exaggerate... like if you want it to clean up some you have to literally barely pick the string. I’d hope that lower output/more expressive pickups would be much more responsive to any difference in picking attack.
 
Try the Pearly gates man.
My band covers cleanish stuff like Sublime, Fleetwood Mac through to Punk and Grunge like Nirvana and Offspring and we do some heavier stuff too like SOAD and Metallica.
I play through an Axe II and always get tone compliments from other guitarists at my gigs.
 
Not sure about the others you mention, but the Aldrich mentioned above is not a low output pickup. As far as examples of low output pickups, not sure about later albums, but pretty sure Eddie used a low output PAF for a lot of the earlier VH albums.

I love the Aldrich pickup as well as the Motor City HotHeads, but again, they’re not low output.
I'm predominantly and metal player using EMG's but I recently got a guitar with BKP Painkillers in and I've never been so impressed with a passive pickup. They have the qualities I love in EMG's but with a little something else. The coil splitting is really sweet too. I have an Ibanez RG752 that I was selling as the stock Dimarzio PAF7's in it are some of the weakest pickups I've ever used and really tainted the guitar for me which is otherwise a great instrument. So I decided if it didn't sell by the new year that I would mod it to suit my needs, main point of which is the pickups and since my BKP revelation I've been trawling the passive world and finding some very interesting options from the likes of Lundgren, Balaguer, Black Diamond and of course BKP.

I currently have a friends Suhr Modern and I find the pickups in it to be very mismatched in output, the bridge being noticeably more output than the middle and neck, switching to the split selections has a profound drop in output that really twists my tits. They sound ok but in their entirety they seem like a poorly matched set to me.

I had a Big Apple strat years ago with Pearly's in that I remember being decent enough for heavy rock tones so they could be a good option for you. I thought I liked JB's but I got a Jackson with a JB set in that sounded way too woolly to me, they also measured in the 17k range so pretty high output. I took them out and put 85/81 in with 24v power and they sound way better IMO than the JB's.

What woods are in the PRS?
if you want something like John Sykes from white snake he used dirty fingers bridge pickup
 
I use Suhr Aldrich pickups in most is my guitars and they sound great. Definitely not mushy in the bottom end. I play 6 string tuned down to c#. I would definitely recommend as well as the SD custom 5.
 
I’ve looked high and low, and trying to find guys using these style of pickups in samples for heavier music is... well it’s not easy... either that or the sample quality is garbage.

I realize some of the lower output options probably won’t be ideal for heavier music due to loose/muddy bass. Some of the ones I’m considering are the Suhr ssh, ssh+ and Aldrich. SD 59, 78 custom, pearly gates, AIIs, Seth lover(I feel like I’m missing one here). Dimarzio paf pro, 36th anniversary.

Well, there's a reason why high gain players prefer to high output pickups, It sounds better, and while you can boost low output pickups to compensate, it tends to increase noise levels. And when you play high gain dynamics aren't that important. High gain music, as in metal, isn't known for its subtleties. Also high gain players tend to use amps that can switch between clean and dirty channels, instead of fiddling with their volume knobs to clean up a single dirty channel. I've never gotten into the habit of rolling back the volume to get a clean sound. I just turn off dirt pedals or switch amp channels.

I’d like something that doesn’t have flubby bass and has decent clarity as well.

When I say heavier music, I’m not looking to do djent with this guitar, nor black metal or anything too crazy. I’d say the lowest it might see is c standard maybe.

There is more to metal then those genres. If anything they are at the extreme ends of the metal spectrum.

Does anyone have any direct experience with the above options? Samples? Any other options to throw in?

thanks in advance

I've always preferred to use single coils myself for downtuned stuff. A Tele tuned to C# was my go to guitar for that sort of thing for years. But it does sound a little better IMHO if they have higher output as that tends to drive the distortion pedal or amp more. I switched out the factory ones for Texas Specials that had a little more output, and later for a set of BKP's Mississippi Queens P90's. If P90's were good enough for Tony Iommi on the first Black Sabbath albums, they're good enough for me.
 
Low output being loose and muddy? If anything, the opposite is true. A PAF-style humbucker is much clearer and defined than a high output monster. There is a reason many of the low tuning guys sculpture out a lot of the low end before the amp, especially when using hot pickups. Hot pickups in general are darker and have less highs/high mids, so the low end and low mids stand out more, facilitating the need to cut low frequencies to tighten things up. When using low output HBs, there is more high mids and treble (and even a decent resonance peak in some of them), which makes the need to remove lower frequencies less of an issue. You also get more of the string coming through in the sound.
 
Low output being loose and muddy? If anything, the opposite is true. A PAF-style humbucker is much clearer and defined than a high output monster. There is a reason many of the low tuning guys sculpture out a lot of the low end before the amp, especially when using hot pickups. Hot pickups in general are darker and have less highs/high mids, so the low end and low mids stand out more, facilitating the need to cut low frequencies to tighten things up. When using low output HBs, there is more high mids and treble (and even a decent resonance peak in some of them), which makes the need to remove lower frequencies less of an issue. You also get more of the string coming through in the sound.

Sorry but I have to strongly disagree with the first comment there. In most of my experience, low output pickups sound terribly undefined and flubby when used with high gain. Sure you can make a useable high gain tone from low output pickups if you throw enough manipulation at it but by and large I say you get the best results from a high output pickup, that's why they're there. Prime example is the Dimarzio PAF7's in a 7 string I have, extremely poor output (DC is around 6/7k), works ok for clean tones but you add high gain and its just a demoralizing smear of tone. No definition, no articulation just a horrible result. Hence why they're coming out ASAP for something with balls, most likely the Painkillers.

Also reducing the bottom end from low tuned tone is more to keep the bass guitar free and clear rather than because it sounds bad in many cases. I find this to be a foible of guitarists trying to make the thickest sound possible from their guitar alone and not considering the whole band mix. I see it time and again where the bass dial is pushed far too high, making the bottom end too cluttered.
 
Sorry but I have to strongly disagree with the first comment there. In most of my experience, low output pickups sound terribly undefined and flubby when used with high gain. Sure you can make a useable high gain tone from low output pickups if you throw enough manipulation at it but by and large I say you get the best results from a high output pickup, that's why they're there. Prime example is the Dimarzio PAF7's in a 7 string I have, extremely poor output (DC is around 6/7k), works ok for clean tones but you add high gain and its just a demoralizing smear of tone. No definition, no articulation just a horrible result. Hence why they're coming out ASAP for something with balls, most likely the Painkillers.

Also reducing the bottom end from low tuned tone is more to keep the bass guitar free and clear rather than because it sounds bad in many cases. I find this to be a foible of guitarists trying to make the thickest sound possible from their guitar alone and not considering the whole band mix. I see it time and again where the bass dial is pushed far too high, making the bottom end too cluttered.
I think we will have to agree to disagree here, because PAF 7s is my first recommendation for 7 string ;) Also, the reason the heavy downtuned guys cut lowend before the amp, is to get a tighter tone with more string characters. Less wolly and flubby, more punchy and bouncy with more articulation.
 
I think we will have to agree to disagree here, because PAF 7s is my first recommendation for 7 string ;) Also, the reason the heavy downtuned guys cut lowend before the amp, is to get a tighter tone with more string characters. Less wolly and flubby, more punchy and bouncy with more articulation.

Wow, Im honestly in shock that you would recommend that pickup for anything other than a paperweight. But to each his own as they say!

Sidenote: I'll have two PAF-7's for sale shortly if your interested ;)
 
Wow, Im honestly in shock that you would recommend that pickup for anything other than a paperweight. But to each his own as they say!

Sidenote: I'll have two PAF-7's for sale shortly if your interested ;)
I don't currently own a 7 string, but they're nice pickups nonetheless!
 
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