Low level clean amps

brokenvail

brokenvail

Fractal Fanatic
I have a larger patch that uses amp 1 and 2 both x/ y setting into one cab that has an x/y. I tried various Fender's amps on amp 1 y 100% stock settings and they are all very low volume wise. I had to get them up to 5db on the level of the amp block to get it the levels to match by ear to the trip tik I have on amp 1 x which I set to the line using the vu meters. With the level that high if I kick in a drive and filter boost I am clipping. Are these fender type amps typically lower in level?


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If you set a clean and a dirty tone to the same volume (the same average level), the clean tone will have higher peak levels, and be closer to clipping. Always. It's just the nature of sound.

If you're getting close to clipping, back off the level on all your presets. When you level-match, always start with your cleanest tone, with all your drives and boosts engaged.

Or use the new VU meters, and set your presets to read 0 dB there. You'll never clip again.
 
Rex said:
If you set a clean and a dirty tone to the same volume (the same average level), the clean tone will have higher peak levels, and be closer to clipping. Always. It's just the nature of sound.

If you're getting close to clipping, back off the level on all your presets. When you level-match, always start with your cleanest tone, with all your drives and boosts engaged.

Or use the new VU meters, and set your presets to read 0 dB there. You'll never clip again.
Click to expand...

I did use the VU meters. Basically the cleans peak higher it takes a lot to keep it steady around 0. When I fine tune by ear the fender is still low and I end up having to crank it further and as I said above once I add a drive and boost for a lead I am in clips ville


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brokenvail said:
When I fine tune by ear the fender is still low and I end up having to crank it further...
Click to expand...
There's the problem. When you're fine-tuning by ear, don't crank the clean; it's already as high as it should be. Lower the dirty instead.

With the VU meter at 0, you've got 20 dB of headroom. It takes a lot of drive an boost to eat that up. :)
 
Rex said:
There's the problem. When you're fine-tuning by ear, don't crank the clean; it's already as high as it should be. Lower the dirty instead.

With the VU meter at 0, you've got 20 dB of headroom. It takes a lot of drive an boost to eat that up. :)
Click to expand...
Rex I am either not examining my self well, you are not understanding or a but of both. I set my three scenes to 0 on VU. Two of the scenes (amp/cab combo which are a trip tik and ac20 dlx ) are pretty level but my vibro lux is way lower to the ear I tried a few other fenders and all had the same issue. I raise the vibro my ear until it sounds right and then it is like 5db on the amp level. My boost is 4db adding a drive (bb pre) pushes the peaks
to clip


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brokenvail said:
Rex I am either not examining my self well, you are not understanding or a but of both. I set my three scenes to 0 on VU. Two of the scenes (amp/cab combo which are a trip tik and ac20 dlx ) are pretty level but my vibro lux is way lower to the ear I tried a few other fenders and all had the same issue. I raise the vibro my ear until it sounds right and then it is like 5db on the amp level. My boost is 4db adding a drive (bb pre) pushes the peaks
to clip


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Click to expand...

Those VU meters (in Utility) really work. Shouldn’t have to raise the level by ear afterwards, after you’ve set the level to around 0 (= -20 dB).
Even after engaging a +4dB boost plus Drive, you shouldn’t be able to clip the output signal this way.
 
yek said:
Those VU meters (in Utility) really work. Shouldn’t have to raise the level by ear afterwards, after you’ve set the level to around 0 (= -20 dB).
Even after engaging a +4dB boost plus Drive, you shouldn’t be able to clip the output signal this way.
Click to expand...

I agree. I am convinced the issue is my amp 1 y because amp 1 and 2 X both behave the way I expect them too when setting levels with vu meter


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brokenvail said:
Rex I am either not examining my self well, you are not understanding or a but of both.
Click to expand...
Entirely possible. :)


brokenvail said:
I set my three scenes to 0 on VU....but my vibro lux is way lower to the ear...
Click to expand...
What volume are you using to level by ear? I've leveled clean and dirty patches by ear at bedroom volume, only to find out my clean was way louder when I turned up the level a bit.
 
I am doing it it gig level. Actually did it in sound check blasting with the sound guy being my second set of ears


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Rex said:
There's the problem. When you're fine-tuning by ear, don't crank the clean; it's already as high as it should be. Lower the dirty instead.

With the VU meter at 0, you've got 20 dB of headroom. It takes a lot of drive an boost to eat that up. :)
Click to expand...

exactly.
 
brokenvail said:
I am doing it it gig level. Actually did it in sound check blasting with the sound guy being my second set of ears
Click to expand...
Then something else is going on when you switch to the clean tone. Until you get that sorted out, drop your other tones to match your clean. You can make it up with the volume knob.
 
Rex said:
Then something else is going on when you switch to the clean tone. Until you get that sorted out, drop your other tones to match your clean. You can make it up with the volume knob.
Click to expand...
My work around has been not using amp 1 y lol
 
barhrecords said:
I find the "Y" settings of blocks can be strange. Almost like uninitialized?

Try "Copy X -> Y" first. Then make your changes to the "Y" block, e.g. amp type etc.
Click to expand...

That was the last thing I did before posting this question :-(. Trying to figure out where to get a computer to upload the patch


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ok here is the patch. I guess I should explain what I have going on here incase someone wants to use it.

It is 5 scenes
#1 Amp 1 x into Cab 1 x all fx bypassed (drvs saved as x's,)

#2 Same as above with Drv 2 x, filter and Dly 1x on

#3 Amp 1 y into Cab 1 x all fx bypassed (drv's are saved as y)

#4 Amp 2 y into Cab 1 y all fx bypassed (drv's are saved as y)

#5 Same as above with Drv 2 y, filter and Dly 1x on

Amp 1 x TripTik Modern
Amp 1 y Vibro Lux
Amp 2 x Nitro
Amp 2 y Ac20 dlx Treb

Cab 1 x stereo uber cab panned center low cut around 120 and hi cut around 6k mic sim is e609 and r121
Cab 1 y Stero cab panned center Class A 30w silver mix and blue mix low cut 180 hi cut 6k

Drv 1 x Zen Master
Drv 1 y Eternal Love
Drv 2 x Full Od
Drv 2 y BB Pre

Pan 1 x set to Trem (not crazy about setting rarely use. Not using Y)

Phr 1 y classic vibe (not using X)

Pit 1 x set up like a micro pog (not using y)

Rtr 1 x One of Yek's old post cab setting

Flt 1 4db boost

MTD shimmer fx stolen from Backerman patch

Rev 1 x room
Rev 1 y Cavern

Dly 1 x My Andy Timmons inspiration dual delay .8 feeding into 1/4 not to many repeats. (ingain set to a modifier)
Dly 1 y Analog mono .8th (ingain set to a modifier)

* My verb is set to y for every scene. I use this patch as template for all patches and if a specific song needs my verb to be x then I will save it that way in that patch only.

*My dly is set to x for every scene. I use this patch as template for all patches and if a specific song needs my dly to be y then I will save it that way in that patch only.

I have a volume pedal with a toe switch. When I activate the switch vol pedal is bypassed (set to thru) and wah is engaged.

I use an MFC
bottom row is scenes 1-5
middle row is Drv1, Dr2, Flt, Pit, Rev
top row is Phr, Trem Rtr Dly 1 Dly x/y
Tap (hold for tuner)
and last is MTD
 

Attachments

  • Trp-Ntr-Plx-Ac.syx
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Loaded the preset.

The Triptik's level is okay and around 0 db on the VU meter.

The Vibroverb is much, much too loud. It's clipping, it's much louder on the VU meter, and also much too loud compared to the Triptik.
AC20 also too loud.
While the Nitrous is much too soft ....
 
yek said:
Loaded the preset.

The Triptik's level is okay and around 0 db on the VU meter.

The Vibroverb is much, much too loud. It's clipping, it's much louder on the VU meter, and also much too loud compared to the Triptik.
AC20 also too loud.
While the Nitrous is much too soft ....
Click to expand...
I have not used the Nitro so I figured it would be off (not worried there). The ac20 sounds level with the trip though it was a little hotter on the vu through my CLR and FOH. The Vibro sounds much lower when I set it at 0 on the vu and going by ear I got it to where it is now closer level wise but I clip. The vibro seems to have huge peaks but the drops down real fast.
 
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