Low end response and the Two Notes Torpedo Studio

Iatros

Iatros

Member
Hey Hey people,

I've been playing around with a two notes torpedo studio and a dual rec, namely trying to mimic the combo using Axe FX II XL+'s modelling, and I've run into a snag.

What I've noticed is that my Axe dupes of the DR lack the low end response of the Rec+Torpedo S, namely, in the sub 40hz range. This gives the DR a significant OOMPH that I find lacking in the Axe's modelling.

I took a snapshot of the two frequency response plots using the same C# chord after adjusting the input gains on my UR824 to equalize average signal power, (see First Test attachment)

My torpedo patch uses roughly the same Cab combo (brit VintC + brit VintO), which as far as I could find are IR's of marshall 1960 cabs (one with V30's one with G12's).
Mics on the Axe have been matched by ear since the Axe and torpedo don't often have the same mic models, nor even responses that sound similar with a known cab.

I've checked the CAB block of the Axe to make sure I didn't have an unreasonable low cut setting; it is set to 20hZ with a 6db/octave rolloff. Furthermore, power amp and cab modeling are enabled on the Axe.

The signal chain of the Axe is likewise comparable to the DR/TS combo; I run my guitar into a Radial J48 direct box, out into a Radial Twin City amp switcher and into either the AXE or the DR. My Axe patch is nothing special, just a single Amp/Cab block combo.

Interestingly, when I disable the cab block on the Axe, run the signal into cubase, and use Two Notes Wall of Sound plug in to copy the settings on the Studio, the frequency response starts to look quite similar and the two amps sound even closer to each other (see Second Test attachment). It almost seems like the Axe cab block has a built in rolloff that is not controlled by its low cut parameter.

So, my question to you is are there any other parameters I may have forgotten about that are causing the low end rolloff? Or perhaps Fractals IRs of the 1960 cabs had a rolloff introduced to clean them up?

Are there any ways you can think of to make them sound closer to each other?

Best,
Iatros
 

Attachments

  • First Test.png
    First Test.png
    1.9 MB · Views: 35
  • Second Test.png
    Second Test.png
    1.9 MB · Views: 35
Iatros said:
@AlGrenadine - Yep. Its a Stereo Ultrares.

@Ratterbass - Interesting idea, how do you figure that could be done? Axe Tonematch?
Click to expand...
You can capture IR with the Axe. Just Google for "axe fx ii IR capture". There's a manual for that.

Instead of using mic pres etc you go from axe output to torpedo analog input and from analog output to input of the Axe.

Alternatively, you can use digital loopback recording in your daw to make IR of the WoS plugin. This requires no analog cables and skips several AD/DA conversions. Depending on your DAW and computer skills, this can be either very easy or incredibly complicated, lol. I don't know if cubase supports this natively but there are free programs for Windows to create digital loop back channels. I've used "VB-Cable" successfully.
 
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Very cool. Ill play around with that tomorrow morning, hopefully it pans out.

Thanks for the info!
 
Update - I'm investigating capturing TNT IRs, but it looks like Ill need to get a XLR to 1/4 stereo adapter cable to interface input 2 L of the Axe FX to the output of the TNT. Ill post results when the cable arrives and the IRs have been successfully captured.
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that if you have filters in the circuit, the cutoff frequency is typically defined as the -3db point. The actual attenuation, roll-off begins before that.
 
@Casper Correct, I'm aware of the 3dB point. I made sure to try to loosen all filters on the bottom end to try to maximize bass frequency output.

Cables have arrived, I'll play around with capturing the Torpedo IR's this week.
 
The impedance curve of the Two Notes stuff is very inaccurate below 100 Hz. The curve resembles a bathtub curve as opposed to a low frequency resonance and then a high frequency rise of a real speaker (or our own load box). This will increase the amount of bass, sometimes significantly, depending upon the amount of negative feedback in the amp. A Dual Rectifier doesn't have much negative feedback (and NO negative feedback in the modern modes) so there will be a concomitant boost of the lows due to the inaccurate impedance curve.
 
@FractalAudio - Very interesting, thank you! So the two notes torpedo has an unrealistic bass boost in the lowest frequencies? I find it a pleasing quality though, is there a way to create this effect with the Axe FX? Would an EQ block do the trick or can amp/cab parameters be tweaked to recreate this bathtub curve? Also, might you have any tips for trying to capture the IR's in the TNTs?
 
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