Loud Digital Noise

[SpudMan]

I assumed it was the bug that this thread is about, but how you wrote it this could (as @unix-guy says) indeed very well be a user error.
You can temporarily put a limiter at the end of your chain to catch unwanted volume raises during preset building. Make sure it is set a little bit above the preferred level, so it will only kick in before it gets 'very loud'.

I will look into that. Thanks!

 

[unix-guy]

I don't completely agree with all of your points. As to belonging in another thread. Ok on that. I just thought it was better to not do that but I am fine with what you say. And I noted above that Skolacki mentioned that he had the problem on his FM3 twice, so I thought it was OK to post here. Sorry if that wasn't appropriate.

The problem he reported is the same, which is the unit crashing and emitting a high frequency digital noise.

Your issue is described as feedback and no mention of the unit not functioning (in fact, since you could bypass the block we know it was functioning).

My volume was not very high, but I would say that logic says the drive type was louder. But changing drive types while having your guitar at a playing volume, should be normal given that the FM3 was designed to be tweaked to achieve desired results.

It's the way it works.

Different types of the same effect can be drastically different in output level with the other settings the same. Especially Drive and Amp. Exactly as is the case with their physical counterparts.

If you have to turn your volume down to change parameters, this should be clearly stated. If it is, my apologies for not knowing that. If it isn't, and there are use cases that by design can cause unwanted and potentially damaging noise, that seems like a problem.

Changing the type/model of a given block isn't really changing parameters. See my previous comment...

On your last point, if that is stated in the manual, and I am sure it is if you mention it, would you point me to where that is? If there is more info on what you can safely change while playing, and what you can't, that would be really helpful.

It's not in the manual as far as I know. It has been stated here by Cliff many times in the past.

That's why many parameters in the Amp block aren't allowed to have a modifier assigned - because real time adjustment while playing will have these types of artifacts.

Again, your issue as I read it is very different from the issue described in the OP.

 

[SpudMan]

The problem he reported is the same, which is the unit crashing and emitting a high frequency digital noise.

Your issue is described as feedback and no mention of the unit not functioning (in fact, since you could bypass the block we know it was functioning).


It's the way it works.

Different types of the same effect can be drastically different in output level with the other settings the same. Especially Drive and Amp. Exactly as is the case with their physical counterparts.


Changing the type/model of a given block isn't really changing parameters. See my previous comment...


It's not in the manual as far as I know. It has been stated here by Cliff many times in the past.

That's why many parameters in the Amp block aren't allowed to have a modifier assigned - because real time adjustment while playing will have these types of artifacts.

Again, your issue as I read it is very different from the issue described in the OP.

I think you may be right but I also think you are making an assumption about the nature of Skolaki's issue. Here is what he said:

"I’ve had it happen twice on my FM3. Loud as hell and not repeatable. Now I try to not do a lot all at once on the editor. Some software glitch but it dimes the volume when it goes off."

It is unclear if his saying that it happened twice is saying a crash, or the digital noise. You might be right, I don't know. Anyway, I am fine with your saying this belongs in a new thread.

As to changing the type/model in a block not being changing parameters, I agree 100%. But that was only one example, as noted regarding Tube Hardness, my unpleasant digital noise issues also occur when tweaking parameters.

As to Cliff stating that in the forum in the past. I don't consider that to be documenting the issue/process. The FM3 is not advertised as not for less sophisticated users, and not everyone who buys and uses a Fractal product is on the Forum. So I would suggest it should be added to the Manual. I totally agree with RTFM and that is what I do and have done a lot to understand better.

As to your last comment, I have agreed with you. I will move on then and honor what you are saying and not comment further regarding this issue on this thread.

I appreciate your input and expertise as I have seen you post frequently, and just about always agree. We can't always agree though. Anyway, thanks for the informtion. I will take it to heart and try to adjust my way(s) of engaging with my FM3.

 

[unix-guy]

I think you may be right but I also think you are making an assumption about the nature of Skolaki's issue. Here is what he said:

"I’ve had it happen twice on my FM3. Loud as hell and not repeatable. Now I try to not do a lot all at once on the editor. Some software glitch but it dimes the volume when it goes off."

It is unclear if his saying that it happened twice is saying a crash, or the digital noise. You might be right, I don't know. Anyway, I am fine with your saying this belongs in a new thread.

I agree... I am making assumptions based on my interpretation of what @skolacki posted.

Only he can clarify that. If his case is different than what the OP stated then it's also not the same issue

I also think you're confusing "digital noise" and "feedback".

The high frequency "digital noise" is the result of the crash. Feedback is altogether different.

As to changing the type/model in a block not being changing parameters, I agree 100%. But that was only one example, as noted regarding Tube Hardness, my unpleasant digital noise issues also occur when tweaking parameters.

As to Cliff stating that in the forum in the past. I don't consider that to be documenting the issue/process. The FM3 is not advertised as not for less sophisticated users, and not everyone who buys and uses a Fractal product is on the Forum. So I would suggest it should be added to the Manual. I totally agree with RTFM and that is what I do and have done a lot to understand better.

It's pretty much limited to the Amp block.

I tend to think of it this way: if the setting is something that would require changes to physical amp components (like tube type, tube hardness, etc) then expect that you could get artifacts if it's processing audio when you change it.

Whether or not specific things are documented in the manual is a question for Fractal.

These are complex devices and it would be a hurculean task to document all possible scenarios of use.

Additionally, unfortunately, the payoff might be low as many users don't RTFM anyway

You could always submit a wish for it to be documented.

I did just go over the Amp section in the Blocks Guide and confirmed there was nothing I could see regarding this.

At least you now know that it's expected behavior.

 

[skolacki]

I agree... I am making assumptions based on my interpretation of what @skolacki posted.

Only he can clarify that. If his case is different than what the OP stated then it's also not the same issue

I also think you're confusing "digital noise" and "feedback".

The high frequency "digital noise" is the result of the crash. Feedback is altogether different.


It's pretty much limited to the Amp block.

I tend to think of it this way: if the setting is something that would require changes to physical amp components (like tube type, tube hardness, etc) then expect that you could get artifacts if it's processing audio when you change it.

Whether or not specific things are documented in the manual is a question for Fractal.

These are complex devices and it would be a hurculean task to document all possible scenarios of use.

Additionally, unfortunately, the payoff might be low as many users don't RTFM anyway

You could always submit a wish for it to be documented.

I did just go over the Amp section in the Blocks Guide and confirmed there was nothing I could see regarding this.

At least you now know that it's expected behavior.

Saw my name mentioned. I don’t have anything to add unfortunately. All I can say is that the loud uncontrollable noise is very rare. If it does happen again I intend to shut off my speakers or unplug my phones and then see what the unit is doing. Easier said than done though because the volume is super loud and reaching for the power is the fastest way to kill it.

 

[oraab]

I tend to think of it this way: if the setting is something that would require changes to physical amp components (like tube type, tube hardness, etc) then expect that you could get artifacts if it's processing audio when you change it.

You can reproduce the crackling/cracks of preamp tube hardness while not playing or having an instrument cable plugged in. Unless I'm misunderstanding the processing audio part. Tried it on a simple preset with Input>Amp>Cab>Out. It will make a pretty loud sound when you turn it.

Actually, testing again, you just need Amp>Output to make the sound.