Lost the Plot with IRs?

[GM Arts]

There are some things I don't get about IRs, and maybe I'm missing the point.

First off, I get that messing with IRs and mixing them can be fun. But I think I've reached a point after auditioning lots of libraries and spending time mixing where I'm not really getting a benefit that makes me say "wow!".

For the heavy/metal players ...
I totally get that the IR is pretty much THE final stamp on your tone. A good IR is critical to good distorted tone. But those types of IRs are not so massively different to my ears that you couldn't have maybe 10 or 20 IRs and just use normal EQ (the graphic in the amp block is fine) to give more or less emphasis to the highs, mids and lows to dial them in the way you want. In short, I don't see the value in libraries of thousands of very similar IRs. Although I do appreciate that the cost of IR libraries is extremely good value for the effort it takes to produce them.

And for low gain players like me ...
Although IRs technically have the same impact on final tone, there is not the same proportion of higher (fuzzy) content, where IRs are most different with many peaks and notches over that frequency range. Lower gain tones are more about how well guitar character comes through and the different amp overdrive textures available with playing dynamics. I've never heard an IR that's blown me away compared to anything suitable I've already chosen.

I DO use a few non-factory IRs (well, 3 counts as "a few"), because they give me a tone I like a tiny bit better than other options.

So, have I lost the plot?

 

[haffner1]

I'm with you, but I'm also way behind the power curve on this stuff. I just got my Axe XL last month and this is the first time I have actually messed with IRs. I was using a GNX4 for the last 10 years before this and a few software sims, but nothing where I could actually upload and demo different IRs. I am really just looking to get a few to use that I want to record with and try match that up with my live sound. My live cab has K-100s in it so I got a pack of those off of ownhammer and I'm going through them. I don't know if I'll get much deeper into it than that, but we'll see.

 

[axes]

For me the thing with IRs is:

- High gain: the IRs are very important as you say, they can yield very different results, and to me, UltraRes IRs sound super-immersive and alive compared to standard IRs. I use Cab Pack 7 (mostly SM57 + MD421 01) and also a few free and "famous" IRs and for high gain tones I don't even touch the factory cabs as much anymore. I tend to prefer Alloy mixes because they really add to that amp-in-the-room tone.

- Lower gain: it's really important to define what low gain means. I consider a Marshall Plexi to be a fairly low gain amp until you hit it with a pedal. If we can accept this, then I believe that IRs are even more important in this regard, and UltraRes shines even more. The only cab that I've really really liked with any Marshall models before I got Cab Pack 8 was the Pre-Rola GB cab. Now with Cab Pack 8 I rarely touch that factory cab anymore.

You have a great point: just like in real life, you tend to acquire your own taste for speakers, cabs, mics, mic positions etc. The same applies here: you're going to use what you like, and maybe it's only 1-2 IRs from a Cab Pack that has hundreds. But the point is finding the tone you want to hear ultimately, and I believe that IRs are just as important as the Amp block and knowing how to dial in the amp you're messing around with.

Or something like that anyways.

 

[axes]

One more thing: have you tried auditioning IRs with Axe-Edit? When I got around to that I was surprised how much of a difference can IRs make not only in the tone but in the feel and character, too.

 

[Soultrash]

There are some things I don't get about IRs, and maybe I'm missing the point.

First off, I get that messing with IRs and mixing them can be fun. But I think I've reached a
point after auditioning lots of libraries and spending time mixing where I'm not really getting a benefit that makes me say "wow!".

yeah, this can get ridiculous real quickly!
it's always the same, an IR "sounds" either thin, scratchy, nasal or muddy,
this has been the case in any IR pack i've tried, be it free stuff or commercial libraries.

having acess to hundreds of examples and so being able to cook an IR stew doesn't really help at all when in search for a killer tone.

i always end up with dozens of "pretty OK tones" but never could get a really great sound that makes me stick to it and stop tweaking...

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

For clean tones you can get away with even a bad IR sometimes. It's all about the EQ balance and there are plenty of controls in the amp block to fix a bad IR for clean. Once you start driving your signal you need more from the IR and yes the more gain the better IR you need.

At this point I will state that the IR affects your tone more than the amp especially if you're driving your sound at all. So sure you can be happy that you have 200+ amp sims but if you run them through the same IR you're not really getting the versatility that you could be getting. Personally I like to match the amps with the IRs. USA amp with USA IR and Brit amp with Brit IR. This way I definitely get a completely different sound from different amps with the same amount of gain.

If you're feeling ear fatigue and can't tell which IR is good and bad anymore then rest your ears. Try again the next day or in two days. You'll come around.

 

[GM Arts]

Thanks guys, looks like I haven't totally lost it yet

I should also say that I love the tones I'm getting, so I certainly don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

 

[Rex]

To me, the IR makes a major difference in clean tones as well as dirty ones. Yes, there can be similarities, but there can also be huge differences. Differences you can't achieve with simple EQ anymore than you can duplicate the flavor of oregano by blending artificial flavors. And just like oregano, the appropriateness of a given IR depends on what you're cooking.

And you're totally right: you can get buried in a sea of options. It can be intimidating, and it can appear pointless. The trick is to audition them against an amp you're working with. Luckily, Axe-Manage makes that easy. Eventually there's that magic moment when you hit an IR that makes you sit up and take notice. The latest one for me came while beta-testing the latest Cab Pack release. I was cooking up a pretty traditional low-gain Plexi soup, and I came across an IR that I really liked. As it turned out, other folks also found it a great ingredient for that soup, and it was renamed and became one of the new factory IRs in FW18.01.

Once you've found an IR you really like, there's the inevitable question: "Is this really the best IR for what I'm trying to do?" Sometimes there are better things to do with your time than address that question. It depends on how much you like to experiment in that corner of the kitchen.