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"lost notes" in chord voicings on Axe II

simeon

Axe-Master
just listened to the drum "stem" on youtube. what a naff reverb on the snare! no wonder the drums sound a bit weak on the album. short reverbs on the snare, people!

the guitars do sound massive though...
 

karmakarmakarma

Experienced
(apologies for the sidebar/hijack)
Ed- there is a clip of Chris Poland playing a Flexi that, though quite short, demonstrated how beautiful that amp can sound. Not sure if I phrased that well.. it is one of my "regret" amps; I always wanted to try one, but never had the extra cash to do so. Plenty of other good clips out there as well, but I am a huge Chris Poland fan :D
Piling on to the sidebar/hijack... I would love to see the THD Univalve and Flexi 50 modeled in the AxeII. They have a really unique organic quality I've heard nowhere else. Happy to send my Uni to Cliff for a while if he needs one.

Karma
 

simeon

Axe-Master
a little petrucci rhythm patch i just knocked up quickly for the ultra / standard

probably crap, but i only spent 20 mins on it, referencing the video that adam posted.

my guitar is quite dark, so it might be massively over bright

i'm sure there are better ones out there, but i just wanted to demonstrate that it's possible to get close quite quickly

i used a TS in front of the amp (usa lead 2) with very low gain. the 4x12 german and the 4x12 recto 2 cabs both with 57's on. the mesa eq after the amp. you could swap the cali for the german, i reckon. i think petrucci may have more gain, but i was at quite low volume, so it was hard to tell

interesting how much room reverb was on the "stems"

i don't have mad riddim skillz, so i didn't want to post an embarrassing clip

sim
 

Thomas-Hawk

Power User
I thought this might be relevant since this thread has evolved into a guide to emulation of JP's scooped Mesa rhythm sound....

You can find the "stems" for On The Backs of Angels available for download here (if you have purchased A Dramatic Turn of Events): Dream Theater - Get Stems For Dream Theater's "On The Backs Of Angels"!

I don't think these are the "raw" mic'd amp sounds. The stem sounds like all the guitar tracks combined and probably with any post-processing already added. However, it's still a good tool for hearing how they mixed JP's guitar sound independent of the other instruments.
Way cool! Thanks for the link and info Adam!
 

nvandyk

Member
Thanks for the continuing thoughts, tips and guidance, folks.

I wasn't able to load the last patch -- I'm probably doing something wrong but are Ultra patches able to load into Axe Edit for the II?

At any rate, here is what I'm working with presently. I think it's pretty close to the tone, could maybe be a touch more warm. Clarity is almost there.

View attachment Lead 2 Red Rhythm(5).syx
 

javajunkie

Moderator
Moderator
Thanks for the continuing thoughts, tips and guidance, folks.

I wasn't able to load the last patch -- I'm probably doing something wrong but are Ultra patches able to load into Axe Edit for the II?

At any rate, here is what I'm working with presently. I think it's pretty close to the tone, could maybe be a touch more warm. Clarity is almost there.

View attachment 8612
No, Ultra patches have to be manually input into the II.
 

javajunkie

Moderator
Moderator
Thanks for the continuing thoughts, tips and guidance, folks.

I wasn't able to load the last patch -- I'm probably doing something wrong but are Ultra patches able to load into Axe Edit for the II?

At any rate, here is what I'm working with presently. I think it's pretty close to the tone, could maybe be a touch more warm. Clarity is almost there.

View attachment 8612
Much, much better. Try taking the Xformer drive down to .8 and see if you don't get a tad more clarity.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
dunno why i posted a patch in this thread really, but here's what mine sounds like -
really out of my comfort zone and you can hear how sloppy my playing is (especially compared to petrucci's....wow!)

mine definitely doesn't have the sheer balls and attitude needed and also sounds a bit "fuzzy" if you know what i mean...not much definition with those full chords...

anyway, i hope nvandyk is getting somewhere...sounds like it from what sean says (i can't try the patch myself) - post a clip buddy!

i should really stay out of these II threads until i get mine....but i just can't help it....somebody stop me! :)
 

Dancing Frog

Inspired
Thanks for the continuing thoughts, tips and guidance, folks.

I wasn't able to load the last patch -- I'm probably doing something wrong but are Ultra patches able to load into Axe Edit for the II?

At any rate, here is what I'm working with presently. I think it's pretty close to the tone, could maybe be a touch more warm. Clarity is almost there.

View attachment 8612
Try turning down power tube and triode hardness for a touch more warmth.
 

nikki-k

Experienced
Piling on to the sidebar/hijack... I would love to see the THD Univalve and Flexi 50 modeled in the AxeII. They have a really unique organic quality I've heard nowhere else. Happy to send my Uni to Cliff for a while if he needs one.

Karma
Was it Wish'd already? Could swear I replied on it *demanding* a Tube Substitution feature to be added along with. Might have been in one of the mass amp wish threads...
 

nvandyk

Member
Okay, getting still closer. The clarity still isn't quite where it could be but if I really try to emphasize the A string in my picking it almost gets where it needs to be. Meanwhile the tone is getting close. There is an "X Factor" to use that overused term that still quite isn't there but it's spitting distance now, I think.

Pull Me Overture at 6 O'clock. Forgive the sloppiness.


Thanks to all for your help!
 

symphx

Fractal Fanatic
Okay, getting still closer. The clarity still isn't quite where it could be but if I really try to emphasize the A string in my picking it almost gets where it needs to be. Meanwhile the tone is getting close. There is an "X Factor" to use that overused term that still quite isn't there but it's spitting distance now, I think.

Pull Me Overture at 6 O'clock. Forgive the sloppiness.




Thanks to all for your help!

Not to be a total homer, but sounds pretty f ing good to me. I still prefer Nevermore sound to Petrucci :)
 

symphx

Fractal Fanatic
I figured I'd post a link to non-compressed wav files in order to pre-empt the obligatory "youtube compression sucks!" argument whenever a clip is posted ;).

Here it is anyway:

that is just wayyyyyyyyy cool, anyone care to throw up a similar sound, Im still tryin.
 

krcassid

Inspired
Great posts going now... And thank you for your answers.

With regard to the Triaxis and translation; this is based upon my personal use, so others' usage may/will vary, of course. Translating the Triaxis to ANY physical head will require (significant) changes; use of the Dynamic Voice section complicates things, as it is not a directly translatable function. IOW, it is not a simple application of a preset GEQ from any particular Mesa head. Further, the Gain "pre-stage" provides an.. eclectic?.. bit of control that is also not (necessarily) directly translatable; except under certain conditions. For instance, if one were to translate a Lead 1 Red (Dual Rec; "color" depends upon power amp, and if a 2:Ninety is used, "Modern" state might solely dictate this), a Gain setting of "7.0" *replicates* the stock input gain of the Dual Rec; varying this equals.. sort of.. an alteration to this aspect of the Dual Rec. AFAIK, Petrucci did not stray from this (his recorded "Rhy 3" patches, for instance).

With that Lead mode, btw, it is a different circuit board (in the Triaxis) being utilized. I would suppose this is due to the tonestack variance, with that being the only one with a post-preamp location; the Mark series runs pre-preamp. Further, the Triaxis is notorious.. probably more accurately, infamous.. for the extreme interactivity and interdependence of each and every control (save the Lead 1 and Lead 2 drives with one another, or when absent), more so than with the emulated heads/amps. Since this is an exaggeration of Mark (and Rec) series amps, and since the Triaxis is not modeled (currently) in the Axe, translational accuracy will be a task :D. If Petrucci-esque is what one is after, then I would first select an era/album/tour, and consider the equipment used. Also of extreme importance is realizing that recorded tone is FAR different from actual "playing the amp in the same room" tone.

I could go on about the Triaxis; it is a pet favorite of mine, and could I afford one plus the Axe II, I most certainly would. I have tried different versions, played with far too many tube combinations.. even considered a few of the mods that are out there. It is unique IMO, and I found it quite difficult/impossible (for me) to replicate some tones accurately enough with the amps it emulates, or with a Quad (or Studio; never got to try a Rec Pre). For older Petrucci-esque tight, Rec rhythm, I would start with what Adam has put out there (settings). Although Petrucci used his 2:Ninety with Deep and Modern engaged for his Lead 1 Red (Rec) patch, I would begin with the Orange mode Dual Rec in the Axe as a starting point. All else, USA Lead might be best.

Just my 3 cents, and in no way meant as a "put down" or other negative reflection upon your, or others', postings. Just my opinion :D
Although I lack the sophistication of Nikki's explanation, I did it the "dumb way". I kept my Triaxis, my Recto, studio and quad pres and I use them (with a Switchblade GL) in my rack with the Axe. Sometimes, I use them right up front, sometimes with pedal EFX (drive) in front, in the loop... I also kept my 20/20, 50-50 and 2:90 (and a pile of Mesa cabs). With the flick of my MFC, I can go from FRFR using 100% Axe to Triaxis/ Axe/ Tube Power/ cabs. I love my Axe. But, I love my amps too! I'm sure that, if I were a lot smarter, I could do away with some of the stuff. But, I'm fat dumb and happy! I still have never quite been able to replicate the sound of my Mesa rigs with my Axe. I'm sure this is due to my own limitations. But, the amps always seem to have that special something (they kick my butt!). My message to the OP would be: Keep your Triaxis! It's awesome! And, despite it's terrible analog limitations
, the Recto Pre is my personal favorite of the bunch, followed closely by the Quad. The Triaxis is amazing in it's versatility. But, if you're a Mesa freak, why not plug a Triaxis into your Axe 2? Works great for me! Now, if I could just figure out some justification for keeping my Mark II...
 

clarky

Axe-Master
Okay, getting still closer. The clarity still isn't quite where it could be but if I really try to emphasize the A string in my picking it almost gets where it needs to be. Meanwhile the tone is getting close. There is an "X Factor" to use that overused term that still quite isn't there but it's spitting distance now, I think.

Pull Me Overture at 6 O'clock. Forgive the sloppiness.


Thanks to all for your help!
sounds great... like you're really getting there...
if you want a little more 'snap' to the tone you could try adding just 1dB to 3dB around the 5KHz area..
if you did this with a PEQ there are two reasonable choices open to you..
1 - use a bell shaped EQ band that is moderately narrow: possibly Q=1.5 to 2
2 - if you want more 'air' use a shelf with a moderately gentle slope and bring it down to roughly the 5KHz area
something like this may offer the definition that you're looking for

also, if you want it to sound a little beefier, rather than boosting the low end you could maybe cut the low mids a touch..
try a band with a Q=1.5 to 1.8, cut it by around 3dB to 6dB and try moving it around between the 350Hz to 600Hz area..
this way you leave all your central and high mids intact so you can still cut through..
but the slight dip in low mids will accentuate the bass [without needing to actually boost it] and make your tone perceivably 'deeper'..

couple the little boost at the top with the little cut in the low mids and your tone may gain what appear to be a little more 'energy' but without a loss of definition..
I can't say with 100% certainty, but this potentially may be where your missing x factor lives...
 

simeon

Axe-Master
definitely getting there, but i think the 4x12 cali is the problem (assuming that's the cab you're using). to me, you latest clip doesn't have the bottom end warmth and there's a hardness to the sound, coupled with a nasally quality in the upper midrange. i tried swapping cabs around in my patch and the cali is contributing to this i feel. if you agree, then you could perhaps try running two cabs - the 4x12 german and the 4x12 recto 2 in parallel. this adds in some bottom end warmth, some more harmonic complexity and gets rid of that hump in the uppers mids without losing any of the bite.
if you a/b your clip and the petrucci stems, hopefully you'll hear what i mean.
just my 2p

sim
 
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