Looper pedals comparison

M

multivir

Inspired
Hey there,

My G.A.S. is coming back... I decided that I want a better looper than what I had in my AxeFx.
I once had a Digitech JamMan which I liked but didn't use too often. I had the impression that the sound quality of the JamMan is better than the Boss RC-20.

So here's my question: Has anyone compared the new generation of loopers and can give me recommendations?
I went to thomann.de and read the more critical reports (one and two stars). The new Digitech Jam Man Stereo seems to be good, but the footswitches seem to be very loud. The RC-50 (which is a bit bigger than what I was first aiming for) gets a bunch of good reviews also, but seems to be a little slow on the first time you loop things (calculations for quantize from what I read) and has no metronome.

Working together with the Axe, MIDI would be nice to control everything from one floorboard, but not the most important feature.
I just want something that works, sound great and is easy to operate.

Any suggestions? Experiences with these or other Loopers (L6, Boomerang)?

Thanks

Mat

P.S. I don't care for jam tracks or amp sims in a looper pedal...
 
My thoughts:

First, I own the latest Boomerang III. Pros - Excellent sound quality, ease of use, regular software updates. Cons - the biggest problem for me is that there is no storage of loops after unit is unplugged from the power source. I asked about this, and Mike (co-owner of Boomeragn) stated that it is their "philosophy" for live performance - catch it on the fly, and it's all about the moment...etc.

I have played through the new Jamman Stereo - sound is good, however, not quite as pristine as the Boomerang. Not totally thrilled with the switches, and I prefer the ones that are like "pads". Seemed easy to use. I play with a freind who owns one, so I can check it out some more in the next few weeks.

Roland RC-50 - did quite a bit of research on this when it first came out. Users experienced significant software issues, and there were few fixes. Not sure if any of that has been remedied - check the roland forums and others...but I personally was not impressed, and would not go that route.

I am probably going to sell the Boomerang as I really want to be able to "save" loops. I will likely get the Jamman stereo as this "saves" loops, as well as has USB connectivity for the ability to interface with a computer to save, upload loops, drums, and other music files. Also, there appears to be some significant software interface and support for managing loops etc. Has a card input fo expanding memory.

I may not get the "stereo" version due to the metal switches, but might go with the standard one which appears to have pads...although it's minus the up/down buttons (can be gotten using external footswitch). Next time I try it, I'm going to really concentrate on how these footswitches work - initially, they seemed a little difficult to get the "press" just right...and I'll pay attention to the noise...

Hope this helps...
 
I spent a lot of time researching, and without a doubt the Boomerang III is the best pedal looper. For me, it does everything I need from the RC-50 and nothing I don't with a much smaller footprint, and better quality overall (not to mention it's actually cheaper! A big surprise for a boutique pedal versus Boss).

It has its flaws - namely, that the 2nd version (the full-fledged thing) keeps getting pushed back. It cannot be midi controlled. I might look into rack loopers but the Rang is really impressive.



... on that note, ARE there any rack units that are dedicated loopers? Or even any that have such features as the Boomerang/RC-50? I don't want to spend another 2k on an all-around processor...
 
Shaloha said:
regular software updates.
Click to expand...



Is this a joke? Or did they release v.2 without emailing me? In any case they are FAR from regular.


By the way, everything you say about the JamMan is perfectly valid. I would definitely prefer it if I didn't want to use sync and free modes to have control over multiple loops at once.
 
regarding the "regular software updates"...If I recall, I've only gotten one, as I was an early adopter of the Beta version unit...haven't implemented the update though, as I've just gotten over triple bypass...but I guess what I really meant was that I think their customer service and ethic is excellent - similar to Fractal's in the sense that nothing will be released before its time...everyone waited forever for the Rang III to come out....and they were clear that updated software to add additional functionality would come...when it comes...my thought is that as I've watched how they operate for some time now, I feel that they will be continually improving the software for their customers...glad you caught that :oops:

anyway...I'm also going to look at rack loopers...but as I said previously...the sound quality of the Rang is absolutely superb...
 
Shaloha said:
regarding the "regular software updates"...If I recall, I've only gotten one, as I was an early adopter of the Beta version unit...haven't implemented the update though, as I've just gotten over triple bypass...but I guess what I really meant was that I think their customer service and ethic is excellent - similar to Fractal's in the sense that nothing will be released before its time...everyone waited forever for the Rang III to come out....and they were clear that updated software to add additional functionality would come...when it comes...my thought is that as I've watched how they operate for some time now, I feel that they will be continually improving the software for their customers...glad you caught that :oops:

anyway...I'm also going to look at rack loopers...but as I said previously...the sound quality of the Rang is absolutely superb...
Click to expand...


I have had a much different experience with Boomerang's customer service. My emails often go unanswered, and when I managed to get through to their phone number my concerns were seriously undermined and I received a "holier-than-though" attitude. I would still recommend their product, just not the customer service as I have experienced. I agree that they are a company that cares about releasing a truly good product... I just think it would be very nice if they could be a little more informative and a LOT more timely about doing so.


Let me know what you find out about rack loopers in your search!
 
The Boomerang looks really interesting. I never saved anything to the old Jamman I had. I like the idea of the smaller footprint, but what's bothering me is that they say "early september" for the software update on the website. (They didn't say which year) And it looks somewhat limited if you look at the amount of memory it has. 64MBs - vs. the SD cards on the Jamman.

If you play 3 chord songs with one repeating pattern with a looper - this is something every looper can do.
But how do you do multi part songs with the RC-50, Rang and Jamman Stereo?
Boomerang has a video on youtube, but he plays the 3 parts in a row first, then switches between them.
So when I played something like "Wonderful Tonight", I always recorded the 3 chord loop first, jammed over it, started the verse and then... well you can't save a loop switch to the next empty patch and record the rest of the song that's not in the same chord pattern while staying in time and in contact with the audience. (How) Can do you do this with these loopers?

What do you use to connect a mic to the 2nd channel of the Rang? Just a XLR - TRS cable or do you need a small preamp to get the levels right?
 
My take...

I owned an RC-20 XL -- was fun but could never make the loops length quantization work, or even when by passed.

I next bought an RC-50XL -- was supposed to have fix for that issue, and I wanted the A/B/C song parts to work for me. never got the fix to work.. it was always a bit off. The Verse Chorus Bridge thing was never successful for me. Maybe I just wasn't talented enough to make it work.

I played around with PC based looper for the last few years - namely Mobius running inside of Reaper as a VST.. It works pretty well, sounds fine, and has a basic GUI that shows the info you need. I could write scripts to do various things, and also it can be midi controlled to do just about any function and then some when you tie it to scripts. I did a few jams and a gig with the laptop and my FCB1010, a mixer with Axe and GR33 and VG88. It was fun, but it was a lot of stuff to hump out and also my laptop froze once or twice. I didn't want to invest in a Macbook, but I could see using this with a I/O box (I own an RME FF800), an Axon (AX-100 MK II) with softsynths, and my AXE and the FCB1010. I know there are guys in the Mobius camp who do this all the time.. Lastly Mobius is FREEWARE and pretty well supported and updated. I liked it but too much investment for me to be ready to play out with it.

So... I now own a Jam Man Stereo. IMHO its far better than the Boss line of products, small, easy to use, accurate, can save riffs (not that I do). i don't like the lack of midi for control and sync, and the sound quality is not as good as the Boss, but usable in a live situation. Also i wish it had the pads instead of the clicking foot switches. Also you still need a outboard pedal do some other effects like reverse. I use it with my bassist who has one too, and we do some cool stuff. Also use with my acoustic trio and I can get it working in time usually. I would have liked a rack version without the cost of the looperlative.

Never used a 'rang'

My main observation is that most , not all, but every drummer I've played with and tried to use the looper cant. I think the lack of spot on timing in the loop length is okay for an accompanist like a guitar player who can follow, but not for a drummer who must lead. I find I can create create stuff live solo or with my bassist. Best uses Ive seen have always been soloist playing.

my $0.02
 
I'm debating about getting either a Boomerang or a Riffbox.
The Riffbox looks extremely comprehensive:
http://backline-eng.com/home/index.php? ... 79652dd7d7
And it's got full MIDI control as well.

Some info from the page...

* The length of the loop recording can be timed to your playing rhythm or to a note pitch using a patent applied for algorithm.
* RiffBox can automatically detect repeated playing patterns to create a loop either based on your playing rhythm or your note sequence.
* Unique delay effects can be achieved that are timed to your playing.
* 77 different looping modes including automatic layering and automatic fading.
* Store up to 100 configurations as presets.
* 16-bit stereo or 16-bit mono recording modes, both with 48KHz sampling rates.
* Up to 40 seconds of recording time in stereo or 80 seconds in mono with high audio quality.
* Full MIDI implementation including program change messages, continuous controller messages, MIDI 'note on' messages and sysex data dumps.
* Recording and playback can be controlled using MIDI program change messages, an external footswitch or a built-in footswitch.
* Swap mode allows a mono loop to play back out of left channel while you play along through the right channel.
* Half speed playback mode for learning complex recorded passages.
* Reverse mode for unique playback effects.
* Toggle between normal, reverse and half speed modes during playback using MIDI.
* Since RiffBox remembers when you play the notes within a loop, you can change the length of the loop during playback timed to the notes that you played using MIDI.
* Multiply the length of the loop during layer recording.
* Doubling mode that adds a fuller sounding loop playback.
* You can synch an external drum machine to your playing during loop playback.

And good price too ($319).
 
Interesting - that RiffBox - never seen that one before. I found something from a review on Loppers Delight...

"One major concern I have is that I find it pretty easy to accidentally stop a loop and not be able to restart it (because I'm armed to record again), or to corrupt a loop with a bad layer (to be clear, *my* bad playing LOL) and not be able to revert. I think Gary's thinking these things through now, and maybe he can post his thoughts here."

That was written in 2005. Seems like at that time you couldn't undo loops. Maybe it's changed now. But if that is a feature that's important to you, you should check the current manual...
 
The upcoming POD HD will have a looper. And it can double as a midi pedalboard, and probably an okay backup for the Axe
 
The big problem with loopers that aren't midi-controllable is the need to use tons of cable in the four-cable method.

The riffbox is a cool idea but as far as I can tell it can't control multiple loops independently. Only one loop at a time (with overdubs of course). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Has anyone ever compared the L6 loopers to Digitech etc.?
The M9 & M13 have a looper built in, but I don't know how good the quality is.
I use it with my acoustic - so lo-fi is not an option.
 
The Line 6 and Digitech stuff is generally the same sound quality. If you need the extra features of the M9 then I'd go with that. If not, why spend more?
 
Ah Yes! Riffbox! The guy that makes those was on ION. Andy Z has a link on the ION forum to his page.
His FX tracker has several algorythms so that it adapts to your playing. Like adjusting delay time to the tempo of your playing. Live and continuously. IIRC.

Funny stuff.
 
Has anyone tried the Riffbox? It seems to have only one footswitch. I can't believe that you can do everything by pitch- & rhythm-detection... There's nothing about it on youtube either, where you could see somebody going through the basic operations.
 
My Looper quest:

Boss RC-2
Jamman
Boss RC-20
EHX 2880
Looperlative


The last two have stereo and MIDI control... now if only there was a balanced XLR version of the Looperlative, I'd have absolute perfection..
 
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