Looking for some specific Pitch Harmonies

tfodor

tfodor

Inspired
Hey everyone, I'm having trouble getting the specific harmonies for the intro in "The Helion" by Judas Priest and the solo in "Round and Round" by Ratt... I went through axechange, some youtube videos, and got close, but something just doesn't feel right. Does anyone have some patches they could share? Thanks regardless!
 
In The Helion, in the first 2 measures the harmonies are maj 3rd, min 3rd, min 3rd. In the 3rd measure, it's 4th, 4th, then maj 3rd.

So I'm not sure how you could do this with a preset. In other words, if you set it to the key of Em, and have it do 3rd intervals (which would choose either maj 3rd's or minor 3rd's, depending on the notes you play), I don't know how it would know to do those 2 4th intervals, instead of choosing a minor 3rd.

Maybe that's what you're hearing. Why not just play that intro as 2-note chords yourself. It'll sound the same as what you're after, and it's not difficult. (Unless you're talking about something further on in the song, which I did not look at.)

And without looking at the other song, I suspect something similar may be going on.

Picture this: On a piano, if you play a C & E, you're playing 2 white keys, with one key in between them. Now run that same pattern up the keyboard. Those intervals will all be 3rds, but some will be minor, and some will be major. Which are which, comes from the key, which in this case would be C major, or A minor, depending on how you look at it, or the musical context. A preset can do this for you, as long as those intervals don't change. But for it to switch to a 4th, as in this song, or even any other intervals, which is what happens in lots of harmonies, I don't know that you can make a preset do that, because how would it know when/where you want a different interval?

And forgive me if you already understand my "piano" explanation of diatonic 3rds. ;)
 
The Hellion is all Em and D triads so you can use dual harmony type with custom scale E-F#-G-A-B-D. The harmonies should be +3/+5, +3/-3 or -3/-5, depending on which line you decide to play.

A modifier on mix (or harmony values, for a unison sound on the middle-line B note) with pitch controller as source can add the harmony only when you play in the higher range, so you don't get the full chordal harmony during beat 1. You'll need to turn scale up and might have to tweak the offset & mid values to get a steep enough transition in the right pitch area (between B and the E above it on the staff).

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Round & Round:

Harmony value would be +3 or -3 throughout for this, except if you switch to 1 (ideally with detune) for unison notes.

Measures 1-3: hexatonic scale from the last post, except key of A: A-B-C-D-E-G

m. 4: A minor/Aeolian. The last beat isn't actually thirds but this could be ignored. Still, custom shifter type could get the original notes if you play the lower part, a-g-e-c. The higher part is b-c-a-c.

m. 5: starts with unison A then back to 3rds through measure 7

m. 8: exact with custom scale C-D-E-F-G-B, but staying on Am thirds only affects one note where the real harmony is G-C.

m. 9-end, same scale as m. 1-3 except unison for last half of m. 12
 
TSJMajesty said:
In The Helion, in the first 2 measures the harmonies are maj 3rd, min 3rd, min 3rd. In the 3rd measure, it's 4th, 4th, then maj 3rd.

So I'm not sure how you could do this with a preset. In other words, if you set it to the key of Em, and have it do 3rd intervals (which would choose either maj 3rd's or minor 3rd's, depending on the notes you play), I don't know how it would know to do those 2 4th intervals, instead of choosing a minor 3rd.

Maybe that's what you're hearing. Why not just play that intro as 2-note chords yourself. It'll sound the same as what you're after, and it's not difficult. (Unless you're talking about something further on in the song, which I did not look at.)

And without looking at the other song, I suspect something similar may be going on.

Picture this: On a piano, if you play a C & E, you're playing 2 white keys, with one key in between them. Now run that same pattern up the keyboard. Those intervals will all be 3rds, but some will be minor, and some will be major. Which are which, comes from the key, which in this case would be C major, or A minor, depending on how you look at it, or the musical context. A preset can do this for you, as long as those intervals don't change. But for it to switch to a 4th, as in this song, or even any other intervals, which is what happens in lots of harmonies, I don't know that you can make a preset do that, because how would it know when/where you want a different interval?

And forgive me if you already understand my "piano" explanation of diatonic 3rds. ;)
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hey thanks for all the info!!! @Bakerman also thanks for hashing that out! Setting it up today!
 
@Bakerman questions since you seem to be the resident harmony expert I am looking. For a couple of ideas
TSO and some of their Christmas stuff Like Joy to the World and priest heading out to the highway twin leads. Are those just unison using a pentatonic minor in the key ?
How would you set that up in custom scales?
Thanks so much
 
Randalljax said:
TSO and some of their Christmas stuff Like Joy to the World and priest heading out to the highway twin leads.
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TSO: if you mean the studio version of Good King Joy not a specific live arrangement, sounds like some lines in 3rds but also a more chord-based harmony when the lower part descends E to E and the higher goes G♯ F♯ E E, C♯ B B G♯.

Judas Priest HOttH sounds like 4 parts, triads spanning an octave. It's almost like The Hellion but in B (all B minor and A triads) except I'm pretty sure one guitar plays A instead of B (making a D triad) on beat 4 of the second measure. That would work with a custom scale B-C♯-D-D♯-E-F♯-G-A. You'd probably want to play the lowest or highest part since those start F♯-E-D and the other parts don't start until the D note (I think). The harmony intervals would be 4, 6, 9.
 
Bakerman said:
TSO: if you mean the studio version of Good King Joy not a specific live arrangement, sounds like some lines in 3rds but also a more chord-based harmony when the lower part descends E to E and the higher goes G♯ F♯ E E, C♯ B B G♯.

Judas Priest HOttH sounds like 4 parts, triads spanning an octave. It's almost like The Hellion but in B (all B minor and A triads) except I'm pretty sure one guitar plays A instead of B (making a D triad) on beat 4 of the second measure. That would work with a custom scale B-C♯-D-D♯-E-F♯-G-A. You'd probably want to play the lowest or highest part since those start F♯-E-D and the other parts don't start until the D note (I think). The harmony intervals would be 4, 6, 9.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for this
Really appreciate the time and response
Cheers
 
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