Looking for Acoustic Violin Presets/Advice

Alex Kerezy

Inspired
Hi,
I have an acoustic violin with a piezo pickup (LR Baggs), and I'm having a tough time getting a nice, full, acoustic tone. While tone can be a hard thing to describe --- what I am not getting is "carry" or "ring" or "fullness" to the sound. It sounds like a cheap violin with a cheap pickup. It does not carry or ring out, it sounds flat or thin......... please note that while tone can be hard to describe, I am absolutely not looking for a reverb sound.

Per some suggestions already - I'm starting with a Cab block using the "TOTALLY FLAT" Cab available from the list. With this Cab, I'm using a tube preamp with very little gain (less than 2), per the suggestion and it's help a little. Someone else suggested putting a compressor in front of the Cab. I tried that and didn't feel it really added much. You can be the judge here on just a Cab or Cab+Compressor
Here's a link to a recording of the fiddle with just the Cab, and with the Cab+Compressor.

Thank you in advance for taking time to listen to the recording. I have some pictures below to show the settings of the Cab and Compressor. Also note that I searched the Exchange site - but the only violin out there was for Axe Fx ii (and I have a newer iii).

I have attempted to use the Tonematch block, using some very nice violin recordings, but the Tonematch turns out terrible. Here's a link to the Tonematch - you can hear how thin it sounds. It's very tinty and thin, as if some frequencies were pulled out and everything muted. In fact it's like the violin has a mute on it. I'

SooOooOOOoo - I imagine some acoustic guitar players, or mandolin players with piezo pickups have had a similar challenge; to make their sound "carry" more, or to be more "full" or to "ring out", or to have more natural "sustain".........I'd love to try your presets and open to suggestions. Again - please don't tell me to just add reverb. Been there, done that, got pitiful results. Once I get a fuller sound - then I'll look at extra effects - first I need a better natural violin sound to start with.

Thanks In Advance!!
Cab-01.png

Cab-02.png

Compressor-01.png

Compressor-02.png
 
have you ever heard this violin sound how you want through anything else? if so, what was it? do you have a recording of this exact violin sounding the way you want?

what if the pickup you have on it just won't produce the sound you need?
 
have you ever heard this violin sound how you want through anything else? if so, what was it? do you have a recording of this exact violin sounding the way you want?

what if the pickup you have on it just won't produce the sound you need?

Chris - excellent point. I certainly believe there are limitations to what you can get from a piezo pickup. It is an acoustic violin with a pickup, and I would be happy to get something close to the natural sound of the instrument, like what you would hear if you were sitting a room where I was playing. I don't feel that I'm very close right now. It would seem with all of the effects available in the Axe Fx iii, there must be something that could improve the sound I'm getting - along the lines of sustain or a fuller sound. But maybe not. I am considering alternate pickups - but the LR Baggs is pretty highly rated as far as what's out there now.
 
Chris - excellent point. I certainly believe there are limitations to what you can get from a piezo pickup. It is an acoustic violin with a pickup, and I would be happy to get something close to the natural sound of the instrument, like what you would hear if you were sitting a room where I was playing. I don't feel that I'm very close right now. It would seem with all of the effects available in the Axe Fx iii, there must be something that could improve the sound I'm getting - along the lines of sustain or a fuller sound. But maybe not. I am considering alternate pickups - but the LR Baggs is pretty highly rated as far as what's out there now.
the axe can't "add violin sound" to your violin. if the pickup isn't "picking up" what you want in the first place, the axe can't effect it.

we don't need to get into the specifics about piezo vs other styles of pickups. the plain fact is if it isn't capturing it, the axe won't create what's missing.

if your violin doesn't produce frequencies under 400 hz, or your pickup doesn't include it, the axe can't suddenly make it appear like its there. nothing really can.
 
Well....some good news....... I had purchased some violin/cello IRs from Sigma Audio. I found that putting an IR block in, and running through that IR block and nothing else, that mellows and conforms the tone. I'm not getting the output volume I'd like, but I do like the tone a lot more using the just the IR block, than the Compressor Block and Cab Block with the TOTALLY FLAT IR selected.

I have 2 violins, an acoustic with a LR Baggs piezo pickup, and an electric with a (cheaper) Yamaha pickup on it. Running the electric through the preset with the same IR block and it really sounds amazing!! I prefer to use the acoustic violin, but for some reason, the pickup on the purely electric violin and IR block with the purchased IRs from Sigma make the cheaper Yamaha sound really good.

It seems that amplification of almost any kind morhps the tone. It's hard to explain but it makes the sound "harsher" and more "shrill". It almost turns the violin sound into something closer than a trumpet. I know that sounds kind of crazy - but listen to this (link to recording).

What is the cleanest way to amplify???? Is there a solid state amplifier?

Do the reverb blocks actually do some sort of amplification??
 
You can load your IRs into the Cab block instead if you want.

The IR Player block is just a stripped down Cab block.

You can add a Null Filter to boost overall level. Or turn up the Cab block, or the Output block.

Matrix is the most recommended solid state amp here. GT1000FX or GT800FX.

Edit:

Were you meaning a solid state amp model? To increase the level? The flattest amp model is the TubePre.
 
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Well....some good news....... I had purchased some violin/cello IRs from Sigma Audio. I found that putting an IR block in, and running through that IR block and nothing else, that mellows and conforms the tone. I'm not getting the output volume I'd like, but I do like the tone a lot more using the just the IR block, than the Compressor Block and Cab Block with the TOTALLY FLAT IR selected.

I have 2 violins, an acoustic with a LR Baggs piezo pickup, and an electric with a (cheaper) Yamaha pickup on it. Running the electric through the preset with the same IR block and it really sounds amazing!! I prefer to use the acoustic violin, but for some reason, the pickup on the purely electric violin and IR block with the purchased IRs from Sigma make the cheaper Yamaha sound really good.

It seems that amplification of almost any kind morhps the tone. It's hard to explain but it makes the sound "harsher" and more "shrill". It almost turns the violin sound into something closer than a trumpet. I know that sounds kind of crazy - but listen to this (link to recording).

What is the cleanest way to amplify???? Is there a solid state amplifier?

Do the reverb blocks actually do some sort of amplification??
Nice, you found out about violin IRs. They add body to the body-less piezo pickup sound. Here's some more you can try, free!
http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Public/IMP-RESP/Violins/

What are you using for your speaker system?
 
Nice, you found out about violin IRs. They add body to the body-less piezo pickup sound. Here's some more you can try, free!
http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Public/IMP-RESP/Violins/

What are you using for your speaker system?

Thank you so much for these IRs. I like your explanation - adding body to a body-less piezo sound.

I use a Henriksen which is a jazz amp. It's ultra clean which allows me to create and control the effects with the Axe Fx, which is what I want to do.

Now that the tone is coming along, I just need to figure out how increase the signal output some. I think I mentioned above - my Yamaha electric violin, with its own unique bridge pickup has plenty of signal strength and with the IRs ...... sounds AMAZING!! But the IRs drastically lower the signal from my acoustic violin with the LR Baggs bridge pickup.

Thanks again for these IRs. I'll try them out. Are you a guitarist?
 
You can load your IRs into the Cab block instead if you want.

The IR Player block is just a stripped down Cab block.

You can add a Null Filter to boost overall level. Or turn up the Cab block, or the Output block.

Matrix is the most recommended solid state amp here. GT1000FX or GT800FX.

Edit:

Were you meaning a solid state amp model? To increase the level? The flattest amp model is the TubePre.

Thanks for your post --- I didn't want to model a solid state amp. I wanted to increase the signal level. I've tried the Tube Preamp (shown in the picture above), even it seems to "color" the tone as it amplifies it. I will try the other suggestions - turning up the Cab block, the Null Filter and boosting the Output block.
 
@Alex Kerezy , you keep mentioning that you tried the Tube Pre
amp as pictured above, but none of the pictures show any Amp Block at all.....Amp# 233, Tube Pre, is what you should try , I think ..........best of luck in your quest
 
@Alex Kerezy , you keep mentioning that you tried the Tube Pre
amp as pictured above, but none of the pictures show any Amp Block at all.....Amp# 233, Tube Pre, is what you should try , I think ..........best of luck in your quest


OK... my apologies. I was calling the preamp type in the Cab block, which [I believe] is shown above ---- as an "amp" selection. But yes, I have not tried an Amp block with Amp #233. One of the preamp choices or types in the Cab block is a tube preamp, but yes I stand corrected, that's not an Amp block.

And now I wonder - what's the difference between:
  • The preamp choice or type of "tube" for a preamp in a Cab block......................versus..............
  • Amp #233 in the Amp block
 
OK... my apologies. I was calling the preamp type in the Cab block, which [I believe] is shown above ---- as an "amp" selection. But yes, I have not tried an Amp block with Amp #233. One of the preamp choices or types in the Cab block is a tube preamp, but yes I stand corrected, that's not an Amp block.

And now I wonder - what's the difference between:
  • The preamp choice or type of "tube" for a preamp in a Cab block......................versus..............
  • Amp #233 in the Amp block
Use your ears and see
 
Thank you so much for these IRs. I like your explanation - adding body to a body-less piezo sound.

I use a Henriksen which is a jazz amp. It's ultra clean which allows me to create and control the effects with the Axe Fx, which is what I want to do.

Now that the tone is coming along, I just need to figure out how increase the signal output some. I think I mentioned above - my Yamaha electric violin, with its own unique bridge pickup has plenty of signal strength and with the IRs ...... sounds AMAZING!! But the IRs drastically lower the signal from my acoustic violin with the LR Baggs bridge pickup.

Thanks again for these IRs. I'll try them out. Are you a guitarist?
I am a guitarist. But I'm just generally into this stuff, so I remembered the violin IR resource.

There's also this device for the violin: https://vsound.eu/
Instead of selling IR files, they sell a dedicated IR player device which has in it 28 violin IR files. If you can borrow that device, you could use the Axe-Fx's IR Capture Utility to capture the 28 IRs off of it into the Axe-Fx :p

Now that you have several IRs, something to play with might be to try mixing some of them together to create new IR combination sounds. You can use the Cab block in the Axe-Fx to mix up to 4 different IRs. Or don't, if you're happy with your current IR sounds.

I haven't heard the Henriksen Bud, but my reaction is that I dunno if it's the best thing for violin... but if it works for you, cool. (It's $1300! Gasp!)

If you want to increase your signal output, you can do it in various blocks along the signal chain. All the blocks (Comp, Cab, Reverb, etc.) should have a Level control, make use of one or more to raise your volume.
 
OK... my apologies. I was calling the preamp type in the Cab block, which [I believe] is shown above ---- as an "amp" selection. But yes, I have not tried an Amp block with Amp #233. One of the preamp choices or types in the Cab block is a tube preamp, but yes I stand corrected, that's not an Amp block.

And now I wonder - what's the difference between:
  • The preamp choice or type of "tube" for a preamp in a Cab block......................versus..............
  • Amp #233 in the Amp block
The Preamp in the Cab block is the equivalent of a channel strip mic preamp... It is mostly there for "character", not amplification.

The TubePre is also based on a tube mic preamp, but it's a full amp block with all the associated controls for both Preamp and Poweramp.

I think using the TubePre with a little gain and Output compression will warm up your signal nicely.
 
I am a guitarist. But I'm just generally into this stuff, so I remembered the violin IR resource.

There's also this device for the violin: https://vsound.eu/
Instead of selling IR files, they sell a dedicated IR player device which has in it 28 violin IR files. If you can borrow that device, you could use the Axe-Fx's IR Capture Utility to capture the 28 IRs off of it into the Axe-Fx :p

Now that you have several IRs, something to play with might be to try mixing some of them together to create new IR combination sounds. You can use the Cab block in the Axe-Fx to mix up to 4 different IRs. Or don't, if you're happy with your current IR sounds.

I haven't heard the Henriksen Bud, but my reaction is that I dunno if it's the best thing for violin... but if it works for you, cool. (It's $1300! Gasp!)

If you want to increase your signal output, you can do it in various blocks along the signal chain. All the blocks (Comp, Cab, Reverb, etc.) should have a Level control, make use of one or more to raise your volume.

WOW...... this is really cool. The violin is one of the most studied instruments, from a physics perspective. I'll see if those guys will sell the IRs by themselves. I actually own this pedal (Tonedexter), which I "think" is basically the Tonematch in a stompbox pedal. I will definitely try using the Cab block to mix the Sigma and IRs that you sent me the link to.

When I used the Sigma audio IRs by themselves, the signal was increased to the max everywhere, and while the tone was really nice, the output signal was too quiet, especially to compared to the dry signal.

As far as an amp - I really use it more as a monitor and I'll plug directly into the PA in larger settings. The amp is smaller and lighter than powered PA speakers, and it seems very clean, which is what I want. I find that when playing with electric guitars and drums no matter how much they turn you up in the monitors, you can't really hear yourself - and being a fretless instrument hearing yourself is a must.

Thank you again for taking the time to look those up and respond. I'm getting much closer to a nice violin sound from my nice violin, with a not-so-nice piezo pickup.
 
UPDATE on the Violin IRs...... so one of the other forum members told me about a company called Vsound which produces a "stompbox" product with encrypted IRs from genuine Stradivari and Guarneri violins. https://vsound.eu/

I asked if they would sell just the IRs. The guy said no.
 
Hi Alex, I'm a violinist. Been using the AX8 for some time and have gotten some decent presets going from very clean to rocking out, I use an acoustic violin with a Schertler Stat-V pickup, but have used the Baggs on another violin for 30 years. The Stat-V is amazingly feedback resistant and gives a pretty clean sound, cleaners than the Baggs. I have some patches with no amp and no cab, starting with a paraEQ. Other patches I start with the tube pre amp and either add a cab or not. Then I kick it up from there with ODS or double verb amps etc. Just sprang for the AXE FX III but saw this thread so thought I'd chime in. I'm familiar with the Hendrikson. For small gigs I sometimes use a Katana, without the AX8. I would try just a paraEQ, no amp, no cab. Then the tube pre, which you can dial down the drive fairly low. For more volume you may need to crank up the volume [not the master unless you want color.] You can really mes around with the paraEQ and graphic EQs to tune your sound. I generally do not like the compressors for a clean sound with violin, adds artifacts I find or just moves it off the violin vibe. I go out to an FRFR, usually the Atomic Amps CLR. If you are going to an actual amp be sure you set the Fractal forth at scenario and no cab in the preset, but you are probably already doing that. Hope that helps a little.
 
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