Live Use/ IEM Question

J

Jipps0525

Power User
I have some Shure SE535's I want to start using at rehearsal. I had tried these and gigged with them a few times pre-covid but I kind of fell out of love with them since the sound for lead guitar just isn't quite the same as what you get from your monitor. And I know it's never really going to be the same because it's just a different dynamic. But I never tried EQ'ing my IEM mix and I want to give that a shot. If I connect my FM3 to FOH, my monitor and IEM set, would I still be using the Global Output 2 EQ to EQ my in ears? And Im talking specifically for my guitar sound. Or is there another way to EQ your In Ear mix? Probably something in the mixer software right? The EQ would have to be independent of the FOH sound for sure. Hope to learn some new things from this.
 
Mixers generally have output "buses" which could also be described as an "aux out" or "monitor out." On my Behringer x32 mixer, I have 8 mono buses set up as 4 stereo pairs which are each a dedicated headphone mix. On the x32 I can add EQ to my individual headphone mix, or I can add EQ to the inputs from the FM3 (which would then get distributed to everyone's headphone mix).

It might help to get some more details on your setup.

On my setup, I send FM3 out 1 L/R to a mic splitter, one side of the split goes to my x32 mixer and the other side of the split is available to FOH. Plenty of different ways to do it though.
 
Jipps0525 said:
Sorry, but what do you mean by "on busses?"
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He’s referring to the collection of inputs, outputs, EQ that comprise the monitor circuit you’re monitoring with your IEMs if you are getting your monitor send from the FOH or stage monitor mixer. If you are sending directly to your monitor/IEMs from the FM3, the bus is in your FM3 and you can EQ that output only.

I use the Axe FX III, but it’s the same concept. I have the output to one channel of my powered stage floor monitor coming from output 2 on the AFX, along with a second send from the desk to the other channel of the monitor to pick up the rest of the band. In this way I can adjust volume and EQ in my monitor without affecting FOH sound at all. If you want a floor monitor and IEMs both, you’ll need something to mix those. That can be a second input channel on your IEM transmitter, or a small mixer.
 
Rick said:
He’s referring to the collection of inputs, outputs, EQ that comprise the monitor circuit you’re monitoring with your IEMs if you are getting your monitor send from the FOH or stage monitor mixer. If you are sending directly to your monitor/IEMs from the FM3, the bus is in your FM3 and you can EQ that output only.

I use the Axe FX III, but it’s the same concept. I have the output to one channel of my powered stage floor monitor coming from output 2 on the AFX, along with a second send from the desk to the other channel of the monitor to pick up the rest of the band. In this way I can adjust volume and EQ in my monitor without affecting FOH sound at all. If you want a floor monitor and IEMs both, you’ll need something to mix those. That can be a second input channel on your IEM transmitter, or a small mixer.
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Correct me if im wrong, but basically I need some sort of splitter to connect both my monitor and IEM to FM3 OUT2 ? And then couldn't I use the OUT2 Global EQ to make changes? My OUT1 goes to FOH and that's the only thing I have FOH so I don't think any changes I make effect that unless they are changes I make to my preset or OUT1 Global EQ
 
Jipps0525 said:
Correct me if im wrong, but basically I need some sort of splitter to connect both my monitor and IEM to FM3 OUT2 ? And then couldn't I use the OUT2 Global EQ to make changes? My OUT1 goes to FOH and that's the only thing I have FOH so I don't think any changes I make effect that unless they are changes I make to my preset or OUT1 Global EQ
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Jipps, what are you expecting to hear in your IEMs? If you want a mix of the whole band, then that will either come back to you as an AUX mix from your FOH, or you will need to split all of the on-stage microphone lines, and run the second set to your own mixer, mixing your IEMs your self.
The first option is the easiest and cheapest, but you don't have as much control as the second option.
Either way, you don't need to send different outputs from your FM3. Using Output 1 will suffice.
 
Jipps0525 said:
Correct me if im wrong, but basically I need some sort of splitter to connect both my monitor and IEM to FM3 OUT2 ? And then couldn't I use the OUT2 Global EQ to make changes? My OUT1 goes to FOH and that's the only thing I have FOH so I don't think any changes I make effect that unless they are changes I make to my preset or OUT1 Global EQ
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As @jclemensfl noted, it would be best if you explained your expectations for what you want in your monitors, how many monitors you’re using, and if you can add sources directly to your monitors or if they are only fed from the FOH mixer.

Pertaining to your question on connecting, it is really dependent on the setup. For instance, I send my Axe Fx out 2 directly to my powered floor monitor channel 1. I then get a band mix from the FOH (where my guitar level is turned to zero) and put that into my powered floor monitor channel 2. In this way I have total control over what I am hearing from the Axe Fx, and how it is blended with the band. Because I send the Axe Fx out 1 to FOH, they can do what’s needed and that’s also what the band hears in their monitors. Changes to the Axe Fx Out 2 level or EQ that I am monitoring do not affect the FOH or other musicians monitors in any way.

I don’t use IEMs anymore because I often need to talk with the audience at stage front and pulling them in and out 20 times a night gets painful! If you want both IEMs and floor monitors, and control over your sound you will need a small mixer at your location to combine, mix, and route the sounds as you want. The more pro option involves splitting all sends and having a separate FOH and stage monitor mixer. When I play those sort of gigs, there are people there to make that happen for you!
 
I found when using IEMs only, I didn't like the sound of the guitar very much at all. It sounded really dry and very sterile. I ended up getting a powered FRFR speaker which I place on the floor in front of me to get some of the amplified sound to feed back through the guitar's pickups. This changed the IEM sound dramatically. With just a little volume coming back and interacting with the guitar I was getting all the pleasant feedback and note bloom which I got with my amps on stage. It was/is a game changer and I will not play with IEMs without some level of stage volume for my guitar.

To accomplish this, I run out 1 to FOH and I run out 2 to the FRFR. I get a full mix of the band (which I control with and iPad) off the board and I set the FRFR volume just loud enough for the guitar to hear it.
 
jclemensfl said:
Jipps, what are you expecting to hear in your IEMs? If you want a mix of the whole band, then that will either come back to you as an AUX mix from your FOH, or you will need to split all of the on-stage microphone lines, and run the second set to your own mixer, mixing your IEMs your self.
The first option is the easiest and cheapest, but you don't have as much control as the second option.
Either way, you don't need to send different outputs from your FM3. Using Output 1 will suffice.
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I want to hear a mix of the whole band for sure, but just be able to EQ my sound for only my In ear monitors because I think IEM's dull the attack of a lead guitar sound a bit, so I just want to push some EQ around and see if I hear what I like. I already have it setup to hear my whole band though.
 
Rick said:
As @jclemensfl noted, it would be best if you explained your expectations for what you want in your monitors, how many monitors you’re using, and if you can add sources directly to your monitors or if they are only fed from the FOH mixer.

Pertaining to your question on connecting, it is really dependent on the setup. For instance, I send my Axe Fx out 2 directly to my powered floor monitor channel 1. I then get a band mix from the FOH (where my guitar level is turned to zero) and put that into my powered floor monitor channel 2. In this way I have total control over what I am hearing from the Axe Fx, and how it is blended with the band. Because I send the Axe Fx out 1 to FOH, they can do what’s needed and that’s also what the band hears in their monitors. Changes to the Axe Fx Out 2 level or EQ that I am monitoring do not affect the FOH or other musicians monitors in any way.

I don’t use IEMs anymore because I often need to talk with the audience at stage front and pulling them in and out 20 times a night gets painful! If you want both IEMs and floor monitors, and control over your sound you will need a small mixer at your location to combine, mix, and route the sounds as you want. The more pro option involves splitting all sends and having a separate FOH and stage monitor mixer. When I play those sort of gigs, there are people there to make that happen for you!
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Yeah see Im in the same situation as you pretty much. I go OUT 1 to FOH and OUT 2 to my floor monitor which is just 1 headrush 108 speaker. So I can change the line level or EQ on that via my FM3 no problem. I am trying to figure out how this all plays out if I do that same exact setup and also add my IEM's but want to EQ them separately for only my ears to hear. Im getting good responses but I dont think im fully understanding what needs to be done so Im trying to learn
 
Sean D. said:
I found when using IEMs only, I didn't like the sound of the guitar very much at all. It sounded really dry and very sterile. I ended up getting a powered FRFR speaker which I place on the floor in front of me to get some of the amplified sound to feed back through the guitar's pickups. This changed the IEM sound dramatically. With just a little volume coming back and interacting with the guitar I was getting all the pleasant feedback and note bloom which I got with my amps on stage. It was/is a game changer and I will not play with IEMs without some level of stage volume for my guitar.

To accomplish this, I run out 1 to FOH and I run out 2 to the FRFR. I get a full mix of the band (which I control with and iPad) off the board and I set the FRFR volume just loud enough for the guitar to hear it.
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If OUT1 is for FOH and OUT2 is for your FRFR, where do you connect your IEMs?
 
Jipps0525 said:
Yeah see Im in the same situation as you pretty much. I go OUT 1 to FOH and OUT 2 to my floor monitor which is just 1 headrush 108 speaker. So I can change the line level or EQ on that via my FM3 no problem. I am trying to figure out how this all plays out if I do that same exact setup and also add my IEM's but want to EQ them separately for only my ears to hear. Im getting good responses but I dont think im fully understanding what needs to be done so Im trying to learn
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I still think we need more info. Who is mixing your IEM mix to include your entire band and where is that mix coming from? That will let us know how to set up your personal eq to your tastes.
 
jclemensfl said:
I still think we need more info. Who is mixing your IEM mix to include your entire band and where is that mix coming from? That will let us know how to set up your personal eq to your tastes.
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Most gigs we use house sound, but sometimes we run our own sound so the bass player typically sets it up since the mixing program is on his laptop
 
Jipps0525 said:
Most gigs we use house sound, but sometimes we run our own sound so the bass player typically sets it up since the mixing program is on his laptop
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Ok, so if I understand you correctly, most gigs you get an IEM feed from the FOH (which we call an AUX feed, or auxiliary feed), but sometimes, you run your own sound, which is mixed by your bass player (who sends you an AUX feed for your IEMs). In either case, your OUT1 goes to the Front Of House mixer or to your bass players mixer, and is sent back to your IEMs.
With that being the case, I can't think of SIMPLE way that you could get a 3rd different eq from the FM3. The signal you are sending to the FOH (or to your bass player's mixer on some gigs) is the signal they are sending back to you as part of the IEM mix. They may have the ability to apply an overall eq to your IEM mix that would make your guitar stand out more by boosting certain frequencies in the mid, but most won't have the ability or patience to separately eq your guitar for your IEMs, because they are EQ'ing that for the FOH mix.
One option, requiring a bit more work, would be to send to the main FOH mixer a STEREO signal (meaning running TWO XLR cables from the FM3 to the FOH or bassist's mixer) and designing your presets to all have hard left and right outputs. Then you could run your first signal to FOH from the L output of Output 1, and then place an EQ in your patch on only the RIGHT side and run your second signal to FOH from the R output of of Output 1.
Then you ask the FOH tech (or your bass player), to only use your first send to him for the FOH mix, and only send the second (your Right output) to your IEM mix. You then EQ that RIGHT signal to taste. A bit of pain to setup (and a little extra work running cables at every gig), but it would get you there.
I think this is a lot of work for little gain though.
The truth is that using IEMs is DEFINITELY different from using a physical monitor, but it is something that simply takes a little getting used to. Once you do, you're never going back to ringing in your ears again. In my opinion, not having to crank amps on stage is one of the biggest benefits of modeling. It has saved my hearing. Welcome to the 21st Century and congrats!
 
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If you’re using a board like the Presonus StudioLive, or something similar, you can route and blend multiple mixes to yourself and control them from an iPad. If you’re having to make it happen yourself, you’ll likely need a small mixer on your own to mix, route, and blend three independent mixes. I actually did that last one for a while, and it was a PITA. The little bit of benefit was totally not worth the effort.
 
Rick said:
If you’re using a board like the Presonus StudioLive, or something similar, you can route and blend multiple mixes to yourself and control them from an iPad. If you’re having to make it happen yourself, you’ll likely need a small mixer on your own to mix, route, and blend three independent mixes. I actually did that last one for a while, and it was a PITA. The little bit of benefit was totally not worth the effort.
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Bingo... We're using the Presonus RM32AI.
 
This is what we do.. for our IEM's. In the OP's case, he can route both OUT's from the FM3 into separate channels, use OUT1 to FOH and OUT2 to his IEM mix, and tweak that to taste!
This solution means we ALWAYS mix our own monitors and let FOH concentrate on FOH.. plus.. we get the same mix in our mixes at EVERY gig (w/ minor tweaks).

IEM_Split_Config.jpg
 
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