Live setup question

J

joviguitarist

Inspired
I'll be doing my first gig with my ultra this coming friday. I'm running it through a Marshall JVM for power (until I pick up a rack amp) and then into my Marshall 4x12. I initially was just going to mic the cabinet for FOH but I know you can also go direct out. After reading the manual, it says to place an effects block after the cab sim...but I'm not using a cab sim. Can I just go out of the axe and not have to tweak any patches for this? Or will the sound be affected by not having cab sims?
 
joviguitarist said:
rudileo said:
It will sound like shit without the cab :)
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so how is this done then? Can you not use a guitar cab onstage as a monitor and also go direct to FOH?
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run your signal like you were going to go direct, but put all post amp effects between anp and cab sim. Split your signal after the last effect before the cab sim and place an fx loop block in the split row. Now output1 will have your FOH signal, output 2 will have the signal to your amp. In this case, you will probably want to have amp simulation on. This will effect the signal sent to your real amp/cab but will make the FOH tone sound better.
 
hmmmm...might stick to micing for these fisrt few shows. I need to have good tone onstage or it becomes pretty annoying. I'm liking the sound I have coming out now.
 
joviguitarist said:
hmmmm...might stick to micing for these fisrt few shows. I need to have good tone onstage or it becomes pretty annoying.
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You don't need to change that at all. Insert the feedback send block in the last block of your signal chain, then, on another row, place the feedback return, cab sim, and FXL in order left to right. The FXL must be in the next-to-last block or earlier in the row (the last block in a row is automatically connected to Output 1, which you don't want). Now Output2 is your FOH send and Output1 is your stage signal.

If you want to use Output1 for FOH (to use the balanced out), the principle is the same. Place the cab sim in the very last block in your main signal row and the feedback send just in front of it, then put the feedback return and FXL in sequence on another row, with the FXL placed as above (no further right than next-to-last cell in the row). Now, the roles of Output1 and Output2 are reversed. Output2 is your stage signal and Output1 is DI.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
joviguitarist said:
hmmmm...might stick to micing for these fisrt few shows. I need to have good tone onstage or it becomes pretty annoying.
Click to expand...
You don't need to change that at all. Insert the feedback send block in the last block of your signal chain, then, on another row, place the feedback return, cab sim, and FXL in order left to right. The FXL must be in the next-to-last block or earlier in the row (the last block in a row is automatically connected to Output 1, which you don't want). Now Output2 is your FOH send and Output1 is your stage signal.

If you want to use Output1 for FOH (to use the balanced out), the principle is the same. Place the cab sim in the very last block in your main signal row and the feedback send just in front of it, then put the feedback return and FXL in sequence on another row, with the FXL placed as above (no further right than next-to-last cell in the row). Now, the roles of Output1 and Output2 are reversed. Output2 is your stage signal and Output1 is DI.
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How is that ant different from using the splitting the signal before the cab block and putting an effects loop?
 
joviguitarist said:
won't the foh mix suffer if I'm not using cab sims?
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Yes, it will sound like crap.

Both methods describe here put a cab sim before it is sent FOH.

My method you split the signal before cab sim, then fx loop block which outputs to output2 which goes to your amp. your amp gets no cab sim, foh does

Jay's method you put a feedback send before the cab sim, then a loop return and fx loop send on another row to do exactly the same thing.
 
javajunkie said:
joviguitarist said:
won't the foh mix suffer if I'm not using cab sims?
Click to expand...

Yes, it will sound like crap.

Both methods describe here put a cab sim before it is sent FOH.

My method you split the signal before cab sim, then fx loop block which outputs to output2 which goes to your amp. your amp gets no cab sim, foh does

Jay's method you put a feedback send before the cab sim, then a loop return and fx loop send on another row to do exactly the same thing.
Click to expand...

Java - a quick check on my part, if done your way the fx loop will automatically output to output2 and to my amp correct, like I just set it and forget it there is no pragramming the fx loop to send to out2 like I want it to, right?

I am having problems - see thread viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2624 It's got to be that I don't have my fx loop seperated from my chain line, but others have said that it doesn't matter it can be in the same row. Somethings wrong because it sounds like crap going to FOH with the digital distortion. I just don't have an easy way to try the different chain unless I'm doing a sound check at a show with lack of time.
 
dockorey said:
javajunkie said:
joviguitarist said:
won't the foh mix suffer if I'm not using cab sims?
Click to expand...

Yes, it will sound like crap.

Both methods describe here put a cab sim before it is sent FOH.

My method you split the signal before cab sim, then fx loop block which outputs to output2 which goes to your amp. your amp gets no cab sim, foh does

Jay's method you put a feedback send before the cab sim, then a loop return and fx loop send on another row to do exactly the same thing.
Click to expand...

Java - a quick check on my part, if done your way the fx loop will automatically output to output2 and to my amp correct, like I just set it and forget it there is no pragramming the fx loop to send to out2 like I want it to, right?

I am having problems - see thread http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewt ... =11&t=2624 It's got to be that I don't have my fx loop seperated from my chain line, but others have said that it doesn't matter it can be in the same row. Somethings wrong because it sounds like crap going to FOH with the digital distortion. I just don't have an easy way to try the different chain unless I'm doing a sound check at a show with lack of time.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is correct. If it didn't work you wouldn't get a signal at all. I've confirmed that routing many times, I am not mistaken. It is also documented as the way to do it in the manual. I commented on your situation in the general forum.

One question I didn't ask is, what is your output 1 volume knob set at.
 
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