Live bands playing along to karaoke tracks - Moral Issue?

[smcrosby]

I stumbled upon a you tube video today where a cover band was blatantly playing along to a karaoke track live. 4 piece country band that has Vox, Bass, Drums and Guitar. I heard fiddle, banjo and female harmonies when the "guys' were not singing. I hear they played one of my local venues that my band also plays at and people were raving about them. This offends me not only as a musician but as someone who works his ass off singing harmonies, and playing guitar in a power trio. I can't verify that they used ableton or some sort of custom back tracks. But my gut tells me they ripped of a karaoke track.

I use a looper on occasion sometimes in my acoustic shows, but I am still working and put in the work recording MY OWN guitar tracks.

Am I alone here? What say you Fractal peeps?

False advertising?

Flame away

:lol There is only one thing to say to "musicians" of this "character" and "integrity," ... "YOU BASTARDS!!!"

EDIT: hmm, no one recognized my South Park parody? Tough crowd!

 

[clarky]

it's not rare for bands to play to a click with backing tracks / sequencers..
I've considered doing it myself, especially to take the load off the keys player when there are lots of layers of sounds etc..
I know of bands that do this to add additional riffing guitars, keys layers, BV's, sound effects etc.. especially in the prog world
the up side is that you get a more 'full' sound and don't have to re-arrange your songs for live performance [where some things have to be cut out]
the down side is that you lose to some degree the timing ebb and flow that a free-running band will do spontaneously
and worse…. tech can fail.. or the band can fall out of time with the click..

either way… it's not really a fraud.. the guys that are playing are actually playing [not miming]..
in fact… it can be more difficult to play against a backing track / sequencer..
it's unforgiving...

 

[chris]

"Press play" rappers... With the Featured artist singing the chorus on the track!!!!! At huge music festivals!!!!!!!!

With their rap on the track too!!!!!!!!

 

[svl]

Love stems, love being a slave to the click. The meter has always been master, and playing to a click only makes a player better, IMO.

Been using backing tracks since the '80s (back then all original music, now covers), have no issue with any band using them- the only stipulation being that the band itself has to be talent-based and not poser hacks using them to hide inadequacies . As a tool used to augment an already stellar sonic landscape, it's a thing of beauty.

 

[Xrocker]

It ain't about the money. It's about integrity.

When you're too unskilled or lazy to even create your own backing tracks, or to mangle someone else's stuff into a new creative art form, I say you need to have your instrument shoved up your ass. Milli Vanilli got crucified for a reason.

You are looking for integrity in the music business?

You'll have better luck finding it in honest businesses such as, organized crime, human trafficking, or drug cartels.

 

[Stratman68]

Been is many bandsover my 30+ years playing out. As of late I do a gig now and then by myself. I use a midi keyboard to sequence drums and bass and I play guitar and vocals. Every note is me . Actually I have this little skit which I think is cool. Sometimes I'll bring the keyboard to a gig-friends wedding or whatever. I kind of build a song live so folks can see what I am talking about. Start with kick, then snare, HH-drop a bass line. You get the picture. And then I play some riffs over it-most people dig that and learn to appreciate what I do a bit more.

Nothing beats real live players of course! But I'm too old and cranky for that now

 

[levipeto]

 

[s0c9]

I'll admit to having done some gigs with tracks... I don't like it.. as a musician who works hard at what I do, I view it as somewhere close to cheating. When it's an individual that does it in a "piano bar" setting and it's done well.. I'm fine with it.
When trax are used by a band, it does give the band more material that they can cover. Still - I view it as cheating the audience... on the premise that a cover band shouldn't be playing songs that require virtual instrument to be able to play the song.
If you are doing original material and using backing trax.. well, that's your decision.

My [old and probably outdated] philosophy on bands that use trax is this.. if you can't do the song live.. you shouldn't do it Memorex either!

 

[guitvai1]

Keep in mind "the audience" is usually 50% hammered drunk and really only cares that you get their butts out on the dance floor or help them drink more.

Now if it's not a pub/club gig and people are spending $200 a ticket like U2 then it makes sense to bring in more musicians to fill out the parts.....0h wait a minute....

 

[guitarsrule]

I play with a 3 piece and we use backing tracks for rhythm guitar and keys (no lead parts). All the backing tracks I made and played. Our drummer uses a midi click buss-ed to his headset from logic. I feel fortunate to have a drummer that can stay in perfect time throughout the song even with tempo changes. You can't find many drummers that are willing to do this

 

[guitvai1]

I play with a 3 piece and we use backing tracks for rhythm guitar and keys (no lead parts). All the backing tracks I made and played. Our drummer uses a midi click buss-ed to his headset from logic. I feel fortunate to have a drummer that can stay in perfect time throughout the song even with tempo changes. You can't find many drummers that are willing to do this

That's our setup too except we mostly track keyboard. The odd bit of rhythm guitar I will track when I'm playing lead just to fill out the mix. I don't see a difference between this and using a looper.

 

[jimfist]

You are looking for integrity in the music business?

You'll have better luck finding it in honest businesses such as, organized crime, human trafficking, or drug cartels.

No, the business is the business, and that won't change. I do expect integrity from the musicians, though. If you're using a backing karaoke track to cover for your lack of talent, as opposed to using them as pure support "ear candy", that is what I'm talking about. Never expect to find integrity amongst agents, club owners, managers, et al. Musical integrity as a performer is a different thing altogether.

 

[jimfist]

It's about the money.

If clubs paid enough, those without talent would never make it through the door. That's how it used to be.

bars and nightclubs...Those acts who ATTRACT A LARGE CROWD get paid the good money...always has been this way historically. Granted, most that make money usually can minimally demonstrate a decent level of musicianship, but not all. Financially, things were much better in the 1980s than today IMHO, yet you had plenty of bands that were what we called "posers", copying the LA hair metal bands for example - all show and no substance - and making plenty of money in the process drawing large audiences locally. Entertainment does not automatically = musicianship.

Point being that it is the musician him/herself who sets their own personal bar for musical "integrity"...not how much you're getting paid. Following the $$$ does not, 100% of the time, necessarily mean that the most talented make the most money. You need also to be entertaining and attract an audience.

 

[solo-act]

Point being that it is the musician him/herself who sets their own personal bar for musical "integrity"...not how much you're getting paid.

Everyday I set the bar for how much I'm getting paid, choose the music I want to learn and choose the music I want to play on a given night. About 10% of what I do is as a service to the public, songs that aren't favorites to play, but because I'm an entertainer, if they're having fun when I play it, I'm having fun.

Regarding talent/integrity, I work harder than most to pay tribute to the original production and performance of a cover song. It means my tones and voice change to fit the song as close as I can pull off. However, my own tone/expression imprints on the song whether I like it or not. Part of being an "artist" is letting who you are come out as well as expanding your limits by exploring how many tones/expressions you can pull off. Covers are great for that. IMO, YMMV etc.

 

[jimfist]

Everyday I set the bar for how much I'm getting paid, choose the music I want to learn and choose the music I want to play on a given night. About 10% of what I do is as a service to the public, songs that aren't favorites to play, but because I'm an entertainer, if they're having fun when I play it, I'm having fun.

Regarding talent/integrity, I work harder than most to pay tribute to the original production and performance of a cover song. It means my tones and voice change to fit the song as close as I can pull off. However, my own tone/expression imprints on the song whether I like it or not. Part of being an "artist" is letting who you are come out as well as expanding your limits by exploring how many tones/expressions you can pull off. Covers are great for that. IMO, YMMV etc.

Yes, that's great, and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not ripping on you. To the contrary. You are obviously not among the crowd I'm talking about. I certainly hope you didn't think my posts were aimed at you, because they aren't.

[added edit] And, to your point, just because an individual has set a personal high bar musically, and for getting paid, is no guarantee that they will actually achieve said goal. Some do, some don't. Again, a musician may set a high bar for him/herself, but that does not necessarily mean it will manifest itself in financial reward. You can be incredibly talented, but to a club audience, incredibly boring. Entertainment value is not necessarily tied to musical integrity, thus pay to entertainer is not tied directly, necessarily, to musical ability/integrity. But I'm glad it has paid off for you, and I espouse pretty much all of what you've written.

 

[solo-act]

Yes, that's great, and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not ripping on you. To the contrary. You are obviously not among the crowd I'm talking about. I certainly hope you didn't think my posts were aimed at you, because they aren't.

[added edit] And, to your point, just because an individual has set a personal high bar musically, and for getting paid, is no guarantee that they will actually achieve said goal. Some do, some don't. Again, a musician may set a high bar for him/herself, but that does not necessarily mean it will manifest itself in financial reward. You can be incredibly talented, but to a club audience, incredibly boring. Entertainment value is not necessarily tied to musical integrity, thus pay to entertainer is not tied directly, necessarily, to musical ability/integrity. But I'm glad it has paid off for you, and I espouse pretty much all of what you've written.

All good words Jim and no misunderstandings here. Changes in music education and industry aside, it still boils down to performing a great song that speaks to people emotionally and working your craft enough to be a conduit for that.

 

[GuitarDojo]

and..... If I could get paid a lot of money doing it (backing tracks + light show+ clowns + zoo animals etc etc) , I would......cuz at the end of the day, I am just a musician whore!

 

[Loquenau]

I've heard Rush and Toto do that. So I'm cool with it if it's just adding parts you can't do with the live musician's.
Of course, a lot is riding on the drummer being able to play in time with it. Most drummer's I've worked with have a hard time.

This.

As long as the people playing instruments are playing the actual parts, who fucking cares? It's still 'live'. Besides, unless there's some particular novelty in someone's version of a cover tune, I'd rather hear the recording.

For most local venues, it's a matter of a labor of love to play out. The pay is 300-400 US$ to split.

Shit, I don't think it's that much here, and there's a million-plus people here. Not to mention any crowd under thirty has to go to a house party to hear something not at least twenty years old.

 

[swervedriver]

I enjoy seeing everything done live as much as possible, but I don't mind sequencers/backing tracks if they don't detract from the show. But hey, I'm biased...

My band would need a 5-piece classical string ensemble on stage if we wanted to play half of our music without any sequencer. Since that's not happening anytime soon (would be awesome though), we use a sequencer for these parts (all written/programmed by one of us, mind you) which is coupled to a metronome which our drummer plays to. Everything else we do live though, including a part where I use the Axe to fill in for the bass player while he plays flute.

 

[clarky]

maybe think of it this way…..

as live performing musicians, we are essentially in the debt of our public / fan base
they part with hard earned to see us perform..
we therefore owe them a great evenings entertainment…

this being the case, I say do whatever it takes no matter what..

sequencing / backing track are simply tools of the trade just like your guitar..
use them all if need be..
do everything you can to deliver the best possible performance and representation of your creativity..