Liquid-Foot Advanced Programming

voes

voes

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
Hi,

I always wanted my Axe-Fx to be controlled as a big pedalboard.
I need at least ;) wah, compressor, 3 drives, amp, cab, tremolo, chorus (or better detune), octaver, phaser, slap delay, normal delay, multidelay, reverb, boost, tuner and tap-tempo.

I know it's a bit absurd, but nevertheless that's my goal
first problem having enough IA's to contol all that power. so I started with the fcb1010 with UnO (great pedal for it's price), but 6 IA's was not enough. so I moved on to the Rocktron All Access with 10 IA's. Still not enough for my needs.
Then I had the oppertunity to by a second hand Liquid-Foot Pro. 16IA's x 4. That probably will be just enough :D

But the biggest problem was the axe-fx. With the standard I hadn't enough horsepower. So I bought an Ultra. but even with the Ultra I had to make compromises. 1 drive and octaver had to go, and yet I was on my CPU-limit.

Using external controllers I was able to change the drive settings (drive and tone) with a IA and this got me back to 2 drives.
Another external controller would do an A/B setting (speed) of my tremolo and phaser.

The solution for the rest: Liquid-footcontroller and SYSEX-messages.
The LF is able to send 140 different sysex-messages. with those I was able to do this:
  • DELAY1: changing delay-type (dual-mono), tempo (1/4-none) and time (135ms) gives me normal tap-delay or slapdelay. Didn't need DELAY2 anymore[/*:m:2pev7wgc]
  • DRIVE1: changing clip-type and other parameters gives me my 3th drive[/*:m:2pev7wgc]
  • PITCH1: changing voice-shift and voice detune gives me the choice between detuner (which i like more than chorus) and octaver.[/*:m:2pev7wgc]

Possibilities are endless!

05old.jpg


(p.s. for those wondering what the page-button is for. it gives me another 16IA's)
 
javajunkie said:
page can give you another 48 IA switches actually.
Click to expand...

I know, but at the moment I only use 16 extra. Even for me 64IA's is a little bit over the top :D
 
I don't have a LiquidFoot but I have been following the development. I had a question... for the guys that are using the "page" functionality for the IA switches can you talk a bit more about how you are using it while performing? Do you have all the IAs in use on two pages and then if you want to use the IA do you tap twice? One for page and then IA? It sounds very powerful but I wanted to understand the real world usage of it.

Thanks in advance.
 
mworkman said:
I don't have a LiquidFoot but I have been following the development. I had a question... for the guys that are using the "page" functionality for the IA switches can you talk a bit more about how you are using it while performing? Do you have all the IAs in use on two pages and then if you want to use the IA do you tap twice? One for page and then IA? It sounds very powerful but I wanted to understand the real world usage of it.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

You can press the down and up button at the same time, program an IA switch to switch pages, use one a the preset buttons as a switch, have it automatically change to the page.

For me I use the preset on the liquid foot to turn effects on and off, but I like having the option to improvise when called for. I have the my axe-fx main blocks on the first page, less used or rarely turn on/off blocks on the second (looper controls and such). The thirds page is programmed for the line 6 m13 at this time and page 4 is programed for the m13 looper. I just have it switch to the page I am going to use for the particular preset.
 
I thought for those who are interested, I gave you an update on my Liquid-foot advanced programming. this way you see the power of this controller.
Let me warn you, it's a bit complicated ;)

The LF can have 4 pages of 16 IA's, I use only page 0 and page 1

On page 0 (the main page):

S01 Drive
CC01 - DRIVE1 ON/OFF

S02 More Drive
CC02 - External3 ON/OFF - set different Drive and Tone on DRIVE1

S03 DELAY
ON
sysex 14 DELAY1 - set type to DUAL
sysex 9 DELAY1 - set tempo L to 1/8dot
CC03 - DELAY1
CC39 - External2 - set mix MULTIDELAY1 to 100%
CC40 - Filter3 - +2dB gain after delay1
OFF
CC03
CC39
CC40
GROUP 3
With SYSEX-command I tell DELAY1 to turn into a DUAL DELAY with Left 1/8dot . Right is always 1/4 so that doesn't need to be changed.

Also setting MULTIDELAY1 to 100% so that when I press S04 I get a very huge sound. this way I can set S04 (multidelay) ready before I use it and press S03 when I actually need it. saves times this way.

The GROUP thing: S03, S09 and S10 are grouped together. This means that if you activate one, the other two will go out. Very powerfull feature IMHO

S04 MULTI
CC04 - MULTIDELAY1 ON/OFF

S05 TRE
CC05 - PAN/TRE1 ON/OFF

S06 MOD
CC06 - PHASER1, FLANGER1 ON/OFF

S07 BOOST
CC07 - FILTER1 ON/OFF which is on the end of my chain and is a global boost of +3dB (solo)

S08 FuZZ
ON
sysex 2 DRIVE1 - clip type: FW RECT
CC38 - 127 FILTER2
OFF
sysex 1 DRIVE1 - clip type: SI DIODE
CC38 - 000 FILTER2
because I have not enough CPU-power left on my ULTRA I change the drive1 type in to RECT, which gives me a FUZZ sound. I use FILTER2 (which is before DRIVE1) to control certain frequencies. The only thing that's a problem is that if you turn this off, type will go to SI DIODE, even if this wasn't the initial type. But I can override this on Preset niveau.

S09 SLAP
ON
sysex 11 DELAY1 - set Type: MONO
sysex 12 DELAY1 - set Tempo: NONE
CC03 - DELAY1
OFF
CC03 - DELAY1
GROUP 3 (see S03)
I noticed that if you set the time to what you want (135ms in my case) and save it on your axe-fx, you don't need an extra sysex for that

S10 1/4
ON
sysex 14 DELAY1 - set Type: DUAL
sysex 7 DELAY1 - set Tempo L 1/4
CC03 - DELAY1
OFF
CC03 - DELAY1
GROUP 3 (see S03)

S11 Harmonizer
ON
sysex 3 PITCH1 - Fixed Harm: Voice 1 -12
sysex 4 PITCH1 - Fixed Harm: Voice 2 -12
CC37 - 000 detune external 7 op 0
CC11 - 127 PITCH1 ON
OFF
CC11 - 000 PITCH1 OFF
GROUP 11 (grouped together with S12, see explanation on how this works on S03)
normally it will turn the harmonizer in an octaver. but on PAGE1 I used it for harmonizing also

S12 Detune
ON
sysex 5 PITCH1 - Fixed Harm: Voice 1 0
sysex 6 PITCH1 - Fixed Harm: Voice 2 0
CC37 - 127 detune external 7 op -5ct +5ct
CC11 - 127 PITCH1 ON
OFF
CC11 - 000 PITCH1 OFF
GROUP 11 (together with s11)
Turns my harmonizer/octaver into a detuner, which I like more than a chorus and saves me CPU-power

S13 Page
turns the page to 0 (S01-S16) or 1 (S17-S32)

S14 A/B
CC14 - External 14 - changes tempo on TRE/PAN1 and PHASER1

S15 TUNER
CC15 - tuner
Actually at this moment, the tuner of the Axe-Fx is set on, you can't see the tuner on the LF. Should be possible once the Axe-FX sends tuner commands out

S16 TAP
QUICK TAP CC16 - tempo tap
special function for tapping. has to do with speed.

On page 1 (the second page):

S17 not used

S18 REC
CC18 - DELAY2 LOOPER - REC
GROUP 2

S19 LOOPER
CC19 - DELAY2 LOOPER

S20 START
CC20 - DELAY2 LOOPER - START
GROUP 2 (this way if I press s20, record button will go out automatically)

S21 ADD
CC21 - DELAY2 LOOPER - STACK

S22 REVERSE
CC22 - DELAY2 LOOPER - REVERSE

S23,24,25,26 KEY A, B, D, E
these 4 IA's are for turning my octaver into a harmonizer and setting the right KEY.
They are all grouped together so that you can only choose 1 KEY
ON
sysex 16 PITCH1 - Int Harm
sysex 17 PITCH1 - KEY A, B, D, E
OFF
sysex 15 PITCH1 - Int Harm
GROUP 7

S27
CLONE s11
this is a very interesting feature. this is a clone of S11. that way it doesn't matter on which page I am, I will always see the right IA state of it (ON/OFF)

S28 not used

S29 Page
CLONE 13

S30 not used

S31 TUNER
CLONE 15

S32 TAP
QUICK TAP CC16 - tempo tap

between each SYSEX-command I set a DELAY-command of 100, otherwise the Axe-Fx won't follow all commands.

I told you it was complicated :D
 
This is exactly how I've been wanting to setup my rig, but I don't understand these advanced midi programming changes at all. Is there an index of the sysex message code for these changes?

I saw the post on LF forum, but I really don't understand what it all means? as an example, I know how to program an IA to control Drive1, but I don't know how to program a second IA that is Drive1 with different tone / drive settings. An example of the programming posted @ LF forum

DRIVE 1 - clip type: SI DIODE
001 F0 00 00 7D 00 02 05 08 0A 00 06 00 01 F7

What does "F0 00 00 7D 00 02 05 08 0A 00 06 00 01 F7" mean and how do you know parameters are being changed with this code? is midi code universal or specific to the device (axe-fx)? Where do I go to learn the complexities of code changes like this?
 
bigedawg said:
This is exactly how I've been wanting to setup my rig, but I don't understand these advanced midi programming changes at all. Is there an index of the sysex message code for these changes?

I saw the post on LF forum, but I really don't understand what it all means? as an example, I know how to program an IA to control Drive1, but I don't know how to program a second IA that is Drive1 with different tone / drive settings. An example of the programming posted @ LF forum

DRIVE 1 - clip type: SI DIODE
001 F0 00 00 7D 00 02 05 08 0A 00 06 00 01 F7

What does "F0 00 00 7D 00 02 05 08 0A 00 06 00 01 F7" mean and how do you know parameters are being changed with this code? is midi code universal or specific to the device (axe-fx)? Where do I go to learn the complexities of code changes like this?
Click to expand...

FYI I posted that @ LF forum ;)

First of all if you want to control different tone/drive settings you don't need SYSEX. you can do that with an external controller. every parameter in the axe-fx that has [] underneath can be controlled by an external controller.

This is the way I do it
LF switch 01 sends CC01 on/off (127/0) and on the Axe-fx DRIVE1 is controlled by CC01

LF switch 02 sends CC02 on/off and on the axe-fx EXTERNAL 2 is controlled by CC02

now on drive1 I go to the drive parameter and hit enter and there connect it to external 2 and set the start and end values as I want it.
I do the same with Tone and level parameters if necessary

To control other parameters that don't have [] underneath is not possible unless you use SYSEX.
So if I want another LF Switch to change the Clip type I need to now the sysex-command.
every sysex-command starts with F0 and ends with F7. everything in between is specific for the axe-fx.

to know the commands is very easy.
start the axe-fx editor and set the midi out to your midi-device
start a midi-editor like bome's send sx and set the midi in to your midi-device
pick ONE midi-cable and connect your midi-device IN with your midi-device OUT

now if you change a parameter on the editor, bome's send-sx will give you the sysex-command for this parameter

once you got that you need to fill it in in your LF sysex-commands window

hope this make sense.
 
Wow! How in the world did you figure all this stuff out voes :lol: . Thanks for the brilliant ideas and descriptions. :cool:
 
I must say that I've been a happy FX-1 owner for a number of years. I've occasionally peeked in to see how the Liquid Foot has shaped up and I must say that I'm VERY impressed. I'm considering ditching my FX-1 for one of these guys. What's the projection for an expander? I know the different pages give you access to more IA switches, but I'm not a huge fan of hitting two buttons to make a change. Plus it forces me to remember what switch does what for each page - I prefer my labels to be a 1-1 mapping for each switch.
 
ringemaster said:
I must say that I've been a happy FX-1 owner for a number of years. I've occasionally peeked in to see how the Liquid Foot has shaped up and I must say that I'm VERY impressed. I'm considering ditching my FX-1 for one of these guys. What's the projection for an expander? I know the different pages give you access to more IA switches, but I'm not a huge fan of hitting two buttons to make a change. Plus it forces me to remember what switch does what for each page - I prefer my labels to be a 1-1 mapping for each switch.
Click to expand...

Expander is in the pipeline AFAIK. I guess it's the Liquid-Foot+, but that's just a guess
 
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