Line 6 vs Helix Floor vs Fractal Axe FX III

[sixtystring]

I own an Axe-fx III and have extensive use with the Helix.

All of the following is my opinion, but I feel like Line 6 is robbing people at the $1700 price point. Maybe at $500 it would be worth it, but since people keep buying them, I don’t see that happening. At $1700 you might as well save up the few extra Benjis for the axe-fx.

The Helix amps behave nothing like their real counterparts and it takes a ridiculous amount of tweaking to get anything usable. The Helix does sound passable in a mix but it's child's play compared to the Axe-FX.

The only thing the Helix really has going for it over the Axe-FX is front panel editing, but that isn't much of an argument, since Axe-Edit is better than the Helix editor.

Also, you can pretty much guarantee that Mastodon is getting paid to push the Helix.

 

[wcfieldskx]

I own an Axe-fx III and have extensive use with the Helix.

All of the following is my opinion, but I feel like Line 6 is robbing people at the $1700 price point. Maybe at $500 it would be worth it, but since people keep buying them, I don’t see that happening. At $1700 you might as well save up the few extra Benjis for the axe-fx.

The Helix amps behave nothing like their real counterparts and it takes a ridiculous amount of tweaking to get anything usable. The Helix does sound passable in a mix but it's child's play compared to the Axe-FX.

The only thing the Helix really has going for it over the Axe-FX is front panel editing, but that isn't much of an argument, since Axe-Edit is better than the Helix editor.

Also, you can pretty much guarantee that Mastodon is getting paid to push the Helix.

I'm thinking Mastodon is only using them for effects...

 

[Budda]

It's proven it doesn't take forever tweaking to get useable sounds out of any of these top tier units. It helps no-one to say otherwise.

Also, you can get the helix sounds for $500 - the stomp. I'm sure if Cliff felt an FM1 was worthwhile he would compete there too.

I say this to clarify for non-members who are simply trying to do their research on which unit will work best for them. There are also a few user groups for each product who generally can help someone reach a sound they are going for.

 

[ak301]

At the end of the day gear choice, like music preference is always down to the user...…but

I had a HX Stomp when it first came out as something to fit in a gigbag when I didn't want to take out my AX8 based pedalboard.
I was super impressed with how much they'd fitted into that box, but the tones were just flat, digital and lifeless to me. I bought some of the best presets for it, a couple shone, but 99% left me cold. I'd play the Stomp for a bit and in seconds of playing through the AX8 it was just another world, more natural and way more inspiring.

The Stomp had long since gone when my III turned up so there'd be even more of a jump as the III was the first time the AX8 sounded digital, just a little bit I'd say. But, the first time I'd noticed it when A/B'ing it with the III

So for me there's no question, in the Fractal I have a box that gives me the most ott effects laden tones, or the nicest natural raw tones, and all points in between

No question Fractal for the win, for me

 

[Mark Al]

It's not even close, IMHO. Fractal is miles better in amp modeling and FX.

I own both, Helix for years and Axe III for months. At home sitting in front of a computer listening with reference studio phones, I prefer my Axe III, as it feels a bit better to my finger than Helix, but in a recording or a mix with other instruments/vocals, it'd be hard to tell which tone is better, which is entirely up to the player, the patch, the IR etc etc. This has been demonstrated repeatedly on Youtube, one can't objectively tell which sounds better in recording.

They are definitely not night and day difference. If it takes forever to dial the tone, IMHO, one needs to train his/her ears. After the initial learning curve, it's quite easy/quick for me to dial up quality tones out of Helix. And nothing beats the convenience of casual gigging with just a HX Stomp and a PowerCab. HX Stomp is such a great design in a small footprint yet powerful and flexible.

 

[metallaholic]

I still have a Helix Floor sitting near me I need to sell. Honestly when I fired up the Axe FX III and just chose a random amp in my wheelhouse....it just sounded better than anything I got after hours of tweaking on the Helix. I was never satisfied and tweaking with the Helix. With the Axe I'm tweaking but because I'm finding new cool sounds. I've never found something I haven't liked. One felt like a box with limited tools that had compromises and the other feels like it has more bells and whistles than I could possible use.

 

[Doctor Wu]

It's proven it doesn't take forever tweaking to get useable sounds out of any of these top tier units. It helps no-one to say otherwise.

But what if it happens to be true for the person saying it? Should they lie? Or offer their honest personal opinion?

 

[Budda]

But what if it happens to be true for the person saying it? Should they lie? Or offer their honest personal opinion?

Then it's true for them, but that doesn't magically make it a universal truth.

 

[Doctor Wu]

Then it's true for them, but that doesn't magically make it a universal truth.

That's right, any more than "It's proven it doesn't take forever tweaking to get useable sounds out of any of these top tier units." is a universal truth.
For some yes, for others, no. Surely all opinions are valid and all experiences should be shared to give a clearer picture?

 

[tornadoclaw]

Line 6 takes forever to update their firmware on the Helix. Fractal has updated the III firmware more than seven times since the last Helix update. That in itself shows the Fractal support blows Line 6 out of the water. Cliff responds to any firmware bugs immediately. Good luck if you find something wrong with Helix firmware.

 

[GLiDE BPM]

I have Axe FX III, Helix floor (and bass player is using my Kemper Stage live).

I use Axe FX III for my secular/rock gigs and use Helix for church (and as backup rig for my Axe FX III).

Helix is not a bad machine at all. I used it primarily before my Axe III pre-order arrived (and I took the time to build gigging presets on the III). I use an FC-12 and two expression pedals.

I will say that if Fractal made a full fledged Axe FX III floor unit, that I would probably say bye to the Helix. However, since the FM3 does not meet my form factor and supposedly does not have the same horsepower and as the Axe III, it's not an option I've looked at. I'd have to still carry an FC-12 with it and for church/tiny gigs/backup rig, I really just want one box to throw on the floor and plug into. I see why Cliff went with good version of more economical floor unit with modular upscaling of external footswitches, but I'm just that dude that would want a full floor unit (even if it still had to add an expression pedal externally).

I have made very nice, comparable sounding backup presets on my Helix, but would have gone Fractal floor unit of it had a one piece full Axe FX III version and had about the same number buttons as the FC-12/Helix.

I could live with just Helix if I had to (and did until the Axe FX III made it worth me going back to rack and a controller pedal form factor).

If the FM3 were the same horsepower as the 3, I would probably consider it plus a spare FC-12 on another pedalboard as my church/backup system. Still prefer that all-in-one form factor, though, especially for my backup system.

 

[unix-guy]

Allan Holdsworth managed to get by with Yamaha.

Holdsworth also had an Axe Fx... Not sure if he used it for gigging at all.

 

[Budda]

That's right, any more than "It's proven it doesn't take forever tweaking to get useable sounds out of any of these top tier units." is a universal truth.
For some yes, for others, no. Surely all opinions are valid and all experiences should be shared to give a clearer picture?

If 1000 people own the unit and 20 struggled to dial it in, then its not considered time consuming to dial in.

 

[steadystate]

If 1000 people own the unit and 20 struggled to dial it in, then its not considered time consuming to dial in.

It certainly is by those who's needs were not met despite the wasted time and effort.

 

[sprint]

HeIix might be marginally more user-friendly,

Not necessarily - I still have a PodHD (makes a great additional Axefx switcher) which I think Helix retains some character from in terms of it's routing architecture (I had a Helix Floor and returned it after I realized how close it actually was to the Pod for my purposes (axe switcher and additional unit for guests to play thru(). I find the L6 routing to be confusing as heck compared to Axefx, particularly aux/guitar input routing and what that means for mono/stereo through the pre path, the split path, and then the post path. Axefx routing is way more intuitive to use for my brain.

 

[Budda]

It certainly is by those who's needs were not met despite the wasted time and effort.

And they are the minority of the people who have used the product. So again, its not hard to dial in. Based on the average experience of owners of the product. Not sure how else to explain it...

 

[steadystate]

And they are the minority of the people who have used the product. So again, its not hard to dial in. Based on the average experience of owners of the product. Not sure how else to explain it...

Your 2% figure is arbitrary. Fortunately, they offer the Native demo. Smart move. I'm sure it cuts down on the number of returns.

 

[JTI]

Your 2% figure is arbitrary. Fortunately, they offer the Native demo. Smart move. I'm sure it cuts down on the number of returns.

Native isn't a1:1 comparison with the hardware.

 

[strabes]

I used Helix for over 3 years, two of those spent on the road. Through the same cab IRs the amp modeling differences aren't as huge as some claim, but they're there. The Helix can sound great but I do agree that Fractal is a step up in sound, feel, and effects. The thing with Helix is that you have to fight it to get where you want, whereas with Fractal you can just pull up any amp model, set the knobs where you would set the knobs on the real amp, pull up 57+121 IRs for a cab that goes with the amp, and you instantly have a very usable recorded or live tone with zero tweaking, and it feels great, as far as cleaning up with the volume knob or breaking up as you dig in, etc. Helix makes you work for it, as the knobs absolutely do not correspond to their real-world counterparts, and there is this weird high end that you have to manage by messing with EQ, high cuts, cab settings, and the amp settings. The high end on the Fractal is so smooth and nice, you can get an amp bright without any "digital weirdness." It's hard to explain but people who have used a Helix and compared them through the same IRs will probably agree with me on the high end. Best way to test it is to reamp some dry guitar through corresponding amp models on both units running the same cab IRs. It's very obvious in a direct A/B test like that.

The Helix is $1700 so to me the FM3+FC6 is an absolute home run at $1500 if you don't need to run two amps.

Native isn't a1:1 comparison with the hardware.

Native has exactly the same processing as the hardware. Any differences people experience are due to differences in the interface. If you use a Helix or HX Stomp as your interface (so you're controlling for the impedance and AD conversion), and set the input of your Native track to USB 7 (so Native is seeing the raw guitar input signal), they sound identical.

 

[chris]

my gig partner used the Helix Stomp on some gigs. we spent time comparing it to my AX8 at the time. we spent about 4 hours trying to match the sound/feel of the AX8 and couldn't do it. he still gigged with it, and it worked and sounded ok, but there was a clear difference playing each unit. Line6 modeling has this "harshness" that we just couldn't dial out. a lack of depth/warmth in some models too. same IRs, same PA system, same everything except the units. in the mix, it was fine for the listener.

pretty much every guitarist i've played with (at least 20 over that last few years) has noticed the depth of tone and quality of the Fractal stuff, compared to what they're using.

it's true too that some people can't notice those things. when i first started playing guitar, i didn't hear the difference between the neck and bridge pickups. i didn't learn what to listen for at that time. but one day i heard it and was embarrassed i couldn't hear that all this time. this holds true for different qualities of amps too. i showed a friend of mine the AX8 when it launched. he grabbed a sans amp and plugged it in and thought they sounded exactly the same. everyone else in the room didn't think that, but he did. and that's ok i've met people who can't tell the difference between a clean guitar sound and a distortion guitar. just "sounds like guitar to me." and that's ok too.

when people have opinions on gear, it's based on their experience and knowledge. it's quite possible for someone to write a post or make a video demo with limited knowledge and say things sound exactly the same, when to others, it doesn't. some people can't hear the difference between a major 7th chord and a dominant 7 chord, or 4/4 time and 7/8 time. that's ok. we all learn at different stages.

different gear exists for a reason. many say Fractal modeling sounds and feels better. others think it sounds the same. factually speaking, both can't be true. so there's a high chance that they do sound and feel different.