Line 6 Helix Reviews Are Starting to Appear...

You are working in IT for 8 years and you still don't know that you pay for the software R&D and not the hardware?
Are you the intern that makes the coffee?

I'm laughing at the fact that you seem to think Software Dev is an endless black hole where profits go to die. After a certain number of purchases that software is paid for. Especially the feature complete part. Now of course new stuff needs funds nobody ever said that but that doesn't always mean someone is using those profits for Dev. Look at how long Line 6 sat on the POD franchise. They didn't start making new stuff until the Chinese started making copies.

Besides, your "calculation" is wrong anyway. The DSPs alone cost 1/5th to 1/4th of the purchase price of an AX8 or ane FX II for that matter. Include chassis, mainboard and quality periphery and you are at least at 1/3th the selling price already in pure hardware components (for the AX8 at least... I'd say the FX II has a higher margin, but that's to be expected from something that stems from the "early adopter" phase (and must therefore cover the R&D cost of new developed products like the AX8) and is also considered the top-end product of it's market segment.

Actually there were no calculations in any of the previous post. Thanks for throwing numbers out there though. All it takes is a trip to Digikey or any of the electronics parts vendors to determine how much the chips actually cost. People do hardware breakdowns all the time. When that happens either cost savings are realized and passed back to the customer or the price stays static and the customer gets a couple new features. That doesn't mean customers shouldn't expect a price drop. Look at the XBOX One and PS4. One GPU is probably faster than both of those DSPs. http://www.nvidia.com/content/GTC/documents/1011_GTC09.pdf

Matter of fact I know there are people working on using GPUs/APUs to process audio. And those consoles are literally 1/3 the price of the AxeFX and they have more parts. So excuse the rest of us from expecting better.

At the point of feature saturation you can still always add new content (like new models) or optimize and refactor your code to free hardware resources. Guess what happened in the Quantum release? Right! The CPU usage went down.
But surely, as you work in a software company you would know that.

That happens with every product. You are preaching to the choir. Performance goals are always planned from the outset. Sometimes you get lucky and hire Dev that has skills and they fix issues you didn't know were caused in the first wave of updates. I read the release notes on the Wiki, so I am aware of the Quantum release notes.


And? If you think calling back products just to fix hardware issues that could be solved (or worked around) by a software update is a good business practice, then clearly you haven't visited any economics (or the right) classes in college.

The only time there is ever a recall is when someone high up within a company has a moral compass, or if enough people are upset by an issue there may be lawyers involved. None of this I mentioned having anything to do with AxeFX. Just because you agree with Line6's sometimes shady business practices doesn't mean I have to. If you make a bad design choice then own up to it.

In this case you have bad copper paint shorting out a board because they didn't use a metal plate or copper foil shielding. Copper paint went under the plastic that supported the weight from the top plastic cover and caused it to turn into a button that shorts everything under the support leg.

It is one option in a host of many. Not even the creator himself denies that (and besides: one of the coolest features of Fractal products is the fact that the creator himself comments on forum posts in sometimes brutal honesty). What sets the Axe apart from it's competitors is that it had a headstart of many years to improve the algorithms to the amount of quality we see today. Besides, supply and demand: Fractal has established a trustworthy reputation from the ground-up over the last decade. If people pay that much for their products, chances are the price is just right. Let me guess: you own at least one Apple product?
But who am I talking to? You work in software developement after all...

Fractal hasn't been around 10 years. 2005. A decade is 10 years. And I actually have purchased zero Apple products. I'm glad my resume doesn't depend on your opinion. Somebody is way too busy fanboy posting. You got so excited replying that you couldn't even spell Development. :)
 
I'm laughing at the fact that you seem to think Software Dev is an endless black hole where profits go to die. After a certain number of purchases that software is paid for. Especially the feature complete part. Now of course new stuff needs funds nobody ever said that but that doesn't always mean someone is using those profits for Dev. Look at how long Line 6 sat on the POD franchise. They didn't start making new stuff until the Chinese started making copies.
Sure. Because programmers and engineers get absolutely no salary at all. Especially not in the US.
And advertisement/infrastructure ist absolutely free. Especially for a relatively small company like Fractal (how many employees do they have? A dozen maybe?).
R&D is more than just a programmer sitting in a basement. But who am I talking to? You are clearly an expert.

And yes, the flagship has certainly paid for it's R&D already. Your point? They are still developing new products, it's not like they sit on the arses and keep the money flowing in. That's not how running a business works.

Actually there were no calculations in any of the previous post. Thanks for throwing numbers out there though. All it takes is a trip to Digikey or any of the electronics parts vendors to determine how much the chips actually cost.
You say that, yet you were too lazy to just google "TigerSharc DSP", select the first link that pops up and find out that one of them alone is already 200$, of which the FX II sports two (also, I remember that back when the FX II was released, they were more like 300-350$):
http://www.analog.com/en/products/processors-dsp/tigersharc-processors.html#tigersharc-processors.

People do hardware breakdowns all the time. When that happens either cost savings are realized and passed back to the customer or the price stays static and the customer gets a couple new features. That doesn't mean customers shouldn't expect a price drop. Look at the XBOX One and PS4. One GPU is probably faster than both of those DSPs. http://www.nvidia.com/content/GTC/documents/1011_GTC09.pdf

Matter of fact I know there are people working on using GPUs/APUs to process audio. And those consoles are literally 1/3 the price of the AxeFX and they have more parts. So excuse the rest of us from expecting better.
Why should I care about GPUs? The Axe and the AX8 both use DSPs. That's how it is. And there is a little bit of quantity difference between audio gear and entertainment consoles...

That happens with every product. You are preaching to the choir. Performance goals are always planned from the outset. Sometimes you get lucky and hire Dev that has skills and they fix issues you didn't know were caused in the first wave of updates. I read the release notes on the Wiki, so I am aware of the Quantum release notes.
Your point? You still have to pay your employees, no matter if a product is feature complete or not.

The only time there is ever a recall is when someone high up within a company has a moral compass, or if enough people are upset by an issue there may be lawyers involved. None of this I mentioned having anything to do with AxeFX. Just because you agree with Line6's sometimes shady business practices doesn't mean I have to. If you make a bad design choice then own up to it.
I never said that I agree with this business practice. I just said that it's an economical nightmare and that I can understand why they did it.

Besides: is there any flaw on the Fractal products so far that would demand a recall in your oppinion? No? Then why do you even bring it up? It's completely baseless.

In this case you have bad copper paint shorting out a board because they didn't use a metal plate or copper foil shielding. Copper paint went under the plastic that supported the weight from the top plastic cover and caused it to turn into a button that shorts everything under the support leg.
So, you are giving Fractal a hard time, accusing them for unreasonable pricing because of ... bad engineering of it's competitor? Don't you see how absurd that is?

Somebody is way too busy fanboy posting. You got so excited replying that you couldn't even spell Development. :)
Really? We are down to language now? Have you maybe in your limited mind considered the possibility that english is not my first language?

Besides: pointing out the fallacies in your post has nothing to do with fanboying. It's just me pointing out the fallacies in your post. Because I like to do that.
 
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Nothing Line 6 makes/made compares to the Axe-fx, it's not even worth discussing.
Bottom line is that the just the Impulse responses and superior dsp, end the story right here.
Carry On, nothing to see here, lol. I know what it is made of, do you?
 
I didn't quite understand that last post.

I don't own any of the top shelf units, but from what I collected around the net, they are not that far away. Both units have pros and cons.
 
Well apparently there is no such thing as a reasonable alternative when it comes to options.

450Mhz processors in the Helix vs 600Mhz in the AxeFX and different software. There is no way to know whether they are even using all 600Mhz from the top shelf chips or if its being wasted by bad programming which is obviously the case with the Helix. Apples vs Oranges is all I keep hearing.
 
Nothing Line 6 makes/made compares to the Axe-fx, it's not even worth discussing.
Bottom line is that the just the Impulse responses and superior dsp, end the story right here.
Carry On, nothing to see here, lol. I know what it is made of, do you?


o_O


No, this garbage doesn't get old at all.
 
What is it about the Fractal that brings out the arm chair CEO's??

I've read the various modeler wars etc., but post after post on this forum all up in FAS business like they know how the business is run or better... how it "should" be.

Baffled by it.
My thoughts exactly. The internet is a weird place. People are saying things anonymously and acting like f.ex. this one person in this thread. I have tried to read his posts to understand what he's trying to achieve but I'm not getting it. I guess he thinks FAS is not run good enough. But why does he care? I don't get it. How do you look at all the things FAS has achieved and not be impressed?

...

 
Nothing Line 6 makes/made compares to the Axe-fx, it's not even worth discussing.
Bottom line is that the Impulse responses and superior dsp in the Axe-II, end the story right here.
Carry On, nothing to see here, lol. I know what it is made of, do you?
 
"I can't say the same for any other gear manufacturer. I've been a professional guitarist for 30+ years. I also am a tech nerd, and was an early adopter of modeling gear, so I have had quite a bit of experience with Line6 equipment. Honestly, the Line6 POD "Pro" was a pretty decent modeling machine in its time, and it was handy for road use. I also used to have a TC Electronic G Force processor. Those flagship units had exactly *one* firmware update during the many years I owned them. It isn't a knock on those companies; I'm just pointing that they were pretty much unchanged and unimproved despite having untapped potential and a huge user base clamoring for updates. Good specs and a solid initial implementation is important. But ongoing customer support, and the relentless pursuit of "just a little more awesomeness" sets Fractal apart."

This is a great point.
 
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