Line 6 Helix Reviews Are Starting to Appear...

I'm sure he didn't.

There's still no holy grail.
i'm sure i did, and I clearly stated what I was referring to. I wasn't insinuating a holy grail, but a track record of service and support that this company has and that one most definitely does not. period.
 
I really do like this Forum here - most of the fractal users are totally ignorant to everything else. I owned a AXE FX 2 myself but sold it - sounded tooo digtital.
By that time I at least thought about buying the just announced FX8 and followed a discussion, that it would be out "soon".

This was in November 2014. I stated, that I would not expect it coming out within the next half year - I was stoned by this community.

Mr. Chase closed the post (too embaressing??) soon after my Statement.

And what happened.....?

Bear in mind that fractal is a Company like every other Company, and they want to make Money - period.
If you want to be ignorant to any Progress ok - but times are changing.............

may be this post will also be closed soon by the Company owner....

“Dare to know”................
 
I really do like this Forum here - most of the fractal users are totally ignorant to everything else. I owned a AXE FX 2 myself but sold it - sounded tooo digtital.
By that time I at least thought about buying the just announced FX8 and followed a discussion, that it would be out "soon".

This was in November 2014. I stated, that I would not expect it coming out within the next half year - I was stoned by this community.

Mr. Chase closed the post (too embaressing??) soon after my Statement.

And what happened.....?

Bear in mind that fractal is a Company like every other Company, and they want to make Money - period.
If you want to be ignorant to any Progress ok - but times are changing.............

may be this post will also be closed soon by the Company owner....

“Dare to know”................
Are you ever going to have that chip on your shoulder removed?
 
i'm sure i did, and I clearly stated what I was referring to. I wasn't insinuating a holy grail, but a track record of service and support that this company has and that one most definitely does not. period.

I can't argue with that other than so far it appears that the new team at L6 is trying to raise their game. So far so good, but they have a history to overcome.
 
my 3 cents, i have not tested helix but from the few vids i've heard it sounds pretty good. I've heard recordings of "real" amps sound a lot worse IMO. So I guess you can real good results from helix, kemper as well as good old amps.

I am perfectly comfortable in the fractal family. Such a good sounding unit, a company with excellent ear for the user needs. What more can you ask for!?

But when I recommended Fender Mustang (often my rehearsal amp) to a bedroom player he was so frustrated with the interface which was a brezee to me. It was not the sound but the interface that he found to be an obstacle. He went out to buy something more accostomed. It's fine he's happy.
 
The only bad thing I ever saw from Fractal was when the AXEFX II came out and all those people bought the first one like the same month were ticked off because they wouldn't have bought it if they had known. Line6 operates just like Roland does. They abandon products to sell new products at the drop of a hat. They learned from the best when it comes to marketing and dropping products. I own the Helix and I have a stack of MultiFX (Roland, Digitech, Zoom) and I have followed the AXEFX since the beginning and the only thing I can tell you is that none of them are worth $1500+. The parts alone don't justify the cost. The price should have went down before the Helix came out but they chose to bring out the Axe floorboard when alot of people wanted a model like that years ago. The only reason the Helix is so expensive is all of the money they sank into it trying to get it out the door and the fact it would have made the HD series irrelevant had it been too cheap.

Yamaha bought them now so hopefully their engineering team can help Line6 get their act together. I don't buy products based on support either. I don't want to talk to the guy that made my product. I just want it to work out the door. There are a few things about the Helix I did not like when it released and they have since fixed a few of the issues in the last 3 updates. They still have yet to fix the Looper which is something I actually use which also should have been one of the things they made sure worked 100% out the door. There also should have been more presets and a Windows app to let you tweak out all the advanced options but that is not going to be out for a little while. I would suggest anyone thinking about purchasing one to read the user guide first and lurk on the forum to get an idea of what you are getting into. Don't listen to Youtube videos. Try one in person. It'll probably be a year before the firmware matures but at the moment it is usable.
 
You aren't paying for a box of parts.

Compared to buying a software solution you are just buying a box of parts. You can build an entire system for the price of one unit. I know people that use their laptops to do the same thing that the Helix and Axe FX do. Entire tours with nothing but a guitar interface, a laptop and some software. Some people have even started using their cell phones and software as well. There are projects out there to use things like the Raspberry PI which is super cheap to do the same thing. It's getting harder to justify the cost because all you are really paying for is convenience. And before you say that you can't possibly get the same performance out of cell phone processor, just look at the amount of progress computing has made in the past 15 years. I've seen the same argument when people said that software amps would never sound as good as tube amps. Obviously you have demonstrated that argument quite well. The AxeFX is nothing more than a computer running your dedicated software. All you can do at the end of the day is build a better computer to house it.
 
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Software also costs money against common belief. ;) R&D costs a lot of money. We're kind of living in a strange time where the customer demands a certain price point by looking at specs. F.ex. People are looking at smart phones and comparing megapixels and basing their decision on that number. Anyone who knows anything about cameras knows that the lens matters way more. Most people probably don't know that too much megapixels can add noise to your picture. Why is the knockoff GoPro camera quality so much worse than the real GoPro although the specs are the same? What I'm trying to get at is that if you think the hardware specs tell you what the product is then you're judging a book by it's cover. The hardware can give you an understanding of a products limitations but that's all.

You simply can not compare Axe-Fx to Helix to whatever software plugin you're referring to and their prices based on specs. No one has a problem understanding why a Mesa amp costs three time more than another brand of amplifiers that has the same tubes in it. Sure all these modelers out there claim to do the same thing but they all do things differently.
 
You aren't paying for a box of parts.

Exactly. There's overhead, development costs, marketing, packaging, design, warranty work, ongoing costs to improve software and add new models in the future etc... And the laptop, phone and tablet solutions don't include the foot controllers for stage use and the poster Chris responded to didn't take into account the cost of the device or laptop. Add it up and I'd rather pay $1200 for my Helix or $1400 for my AX8. Plus these units are much more durable for gigging guitarist.
 
Compared to buying a software solution you are just buying a box of parts. You can build an entire system for the price of one unit. I know people that use their laptops to do the same thing that the Helix and Axe FX do. Entire tours with nothing but a guitar interface, a laptop and some software. Some people have even started using their cell phones and software as well. There are projects out there to use things like the Raspberry PI which is super cheap to do the same thing. It's getting harder to justify the cost because all you are really paying for is convenience. And before you say that you can't possibly get the same performance out of cell phone processor, just look at the amount of progress computing has made in the past 15 years. I've seen the same argument when people said that software amps would never sound as good as tube amps. Obviously you have demonstrated that argument quite well. The AxeFX is nothing more than a computer running your dedicated software. All you can do at the end of the day is build a better computer to house it.

Is this Romeo? Well I sure am glad you signed up here to save us all, with your enlightening words, from the clenches of the Fractal demon. Elwood, I have seen the light!
If you are so convinced of software solutions, wtf are you doing here? You’re preaching to the wrong choir dude (or dudet)!
 
Based on personal experience an Axe-Fx is well worth the price differential.

If Axe Fx does what it said it does then it is worth the asking price IMO. But before I put the trigger on one I really have to have one to one ride with it

Line6? No, thank you - I was fooled with realism claims way to often. Fancy panel and advanced edit options wont work on buying me
 
If Axe Fx does what it said it does then it is worth the asking price IMO. But before I put the trigger on one I really have to have one to one ride with it

Line6? No, thank you - I was fooled with realism claims way to often. Fancy panel and advanced edit options wont work on buying me

It's always a good idea to try everything and compare. That's why I like to own at least one of each thing for comparisons. Every company out there is out to market realism when it comes to amp modeling. There is some psychology that goes into it. I still keep hardware around because I learned from buying keyboards that there is always something you are going to miss about the original gear. All of these things are tools meant to allow us to create. Some tools are just better than others.

Is this Romeo? Well I sure am glad you signed up here to save us all, with your enlightening words, from the clenches of the Fractal demon. Elwood, I have seen the light!
If you are so convinced of software solutions, wtf are you doing here? You’re preaching to the wrong choir dude (or dudet)!

I am pretty sure Chris would have deleted my post after a fair bit of Cyberstalking if he thought I was someone else. I have lurked this place long enough that I felt like posting even though I've been seeing a fair bit of retarded fanboying going on. Chris can speak for himself. And this just happens to be a Helix thread. I have disassembled enough gear to know that you can only get by so far on marketing gimmicks. I actually work for a software company going on 8 years. At some point you reach a plateau where you are no longer researching anything new unless you are working on a new product. With things like modelers the hardware is generally set in stone until someone finds a problem that cannot be hid by software. For example on the X3 Live there was an issue where they used copper paint as shielding a pieces of it were falling off onto the board where they were shorting out lines after weight was applied. Well they released a patch that would slow down the switch polling so the problem wasn't as obvious. It didn't fix the issue though. It was a nice try though. Its the same reason for the black screen of death.

There are alot of people that are interested in not just using products but understanding exactly what they are paying for and if they think they can get similar performance for cheaper they will not hesitate to do it. I see the AxeFX as a more mature product that is just one option in a host of many. If you really want to see who is into dick waving, find out how many are actually making money off of it versus buying it just to say they have one.
 
I actually work for a software company going on 8 years.
You are working in IT for 8 years and you still don't know that you pay for the software R&D and not the hardware?
Are you the intern that makes the coffee?

Besides, your "calculation" is wrong anyway. The DSPs alone cost 1/5th to 1/4th of the purchase price of an AX8 or ane FX II for that matter. Include chassis, mainboard and quality periphery and you are at least at 1/3th the selling price already in pure hardware components (for the AX8 at least... I'd say the FX II has a higher margin, but that's to be expected from something that stems from the "early adopter" phase (and must therefore cover the R&D cost of new developed products like the AX8) and is also considered the top-end product of it's market segment.

At some point you reach a plateau where you are no longer researching anything new unless you are working on a new product.
At the point of feature saturation you can still always add new content (like new models) or optimize and refactor your code to free hardware resources. Guess what happened in the Quantum release? Right! The CPU usage went down.
But surely, as you work in a software company you would know that.

With things like modelers the hardware is generally set in stone until someone finds a problem that cannot be hid by software. For example on the X3 Live there was an issue where they used copper paint as shielding a pieces of it were falling off onto the board where they were shorting out lines after weight was applied. Well they released a patch that would slow down the switch polling so the problem wasn't as obvious. It didn't fix the issue though. It was a nice try though. Its the same reason for the black screen of death.
And? If you think calling back products just to fix hardware issues that could be solved (or worked around) by a software update is a good business practice, then clearly you haven't visited any economics (or the right) classes in college.

There are alot of people that are interested in not just using products but understanding exactly what they are paying for and if they think they can get similar performance for cheaper they will not hesitate to do it. I see the AxeFX as a more mature product that is just one option in a host of many. If you really want to see who is into dick waving, find out how many are actually making money off of it versus buying it just to say they have one.
It is one option in a host of many. Not even the creator himself denies that (and besides: one of the coolest features of Fractal products is the fact that the creator himself comments on forum posts in sometimes brutal honesty). What sets the Axe apart from it's competitors is that it had a headstart of many years to improve the algorithms to the amount of quality we see today. Besides, supply and demand: Fractal has established a trustworthy reputation from the ground-up over the last decade. If people pay that much for their products, chances are the price is just right. Let me guess: you own at least one Apple product?
But who am I talking to? You work in software developement after all...
 
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For example on the X3 Live there was an issue where they used copper paint as shielding a pieces of it were falling off onto the board where they were shorting out lines after weight was applied. Well they released a patch that would slow down the switch polling so the problem wasn't as obvious. It didn't fix the issue though. It was a nice try though. Its the same reason for the black screen of death.

I want to make sure I'm clearly understanding what you're saying here. I assume when you write "black screen of death" you're referring to Helix units where the screen suddenly did not work. If that is correct, are you saying that this is caused by copper shielding paint is falling on the circuit boards in those Helix units and causing a short that results in the screen going blank? Or are you saying that Line 6's claim that it was a software/firmware bug that has been fixed is false and it is a hardware issue?

Either way, what's the basis for your claim?
 
I want to make sure I'm clearly understanding what you're saying here. I assume when you write "black screen of death" you're referring to Helix units where the screen suddenly did not work. If that is correct, are you saying that this is caused by copper shielding paint is falling on the circuit boards in those Helix units and causing a short that results in the screen going blank? Or are you saying that Line 6's claim that it was a software/firmware bug that has been fixed is false and it is a hardware issue?

Either way, what's the basis for your claim?

Specifically the Line 6 X3 Live. I did a write-up on it with pictures when the X3 first came out.
 
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