Light guitars, better sustain!?!

A guitar having natural sustain is very different from getting feedback through the use of volume and placing yourself in the sweet spot, etc. When I'm trying out guitars in a shop, etc. I rarely plug them in unless I find one that resonates and sustains really well and has the right neck carve and specs for my preferences, etc. Luke above mentioned well dressed frets.. that along with a really good setup can make a big difference as well, even on custom shop level guitars. I recently purchased a particularly nice PRS Private Stock DGT through a dealer friend of mine (was his personal guitar) and it came with a fairly bad setup. Once I had it setup for my preferences the guitar came to life and is a true keeper for me. It's hard to even judge some guitars until they've been properly setup.
 
I've had experiences of all types.
Big heavy Les Pauls that sustain for days.....and some that sounds like garbage.
Also have very light guitars that sustain for days....and soem that sound like garbage.

I'm sure there is plenty of science behind it....but (I believe) sometimes it's just luck of the draw.
One of the cool things about wood, is that every piece is different. And although there is certainly consistency when using similar materials.....you do have times where a guitar just had a mojo or magic that you just love.

I recently built a Tele using parts from Matt Jenny (MJT), and for some reason the guitar just absolutely sings.
You just never know when or why you're going to find the 'right one'.
And that's why I love the chase....
 
A perfect sustain curve is more than the brand of the guitar, its not even the type of guitar or what its made of.

It has 100% to do with the individual guitar and the its individual features or flaws that hinder its decay

you could have 2 of the exactly same guitars and i doubt they would sustain symmetrically

There is just so many things that could help or hinder sustain, pickups neck joints, natural flaws, ect. ect. ect...

also to, every guitar will have natural frequencies, so playing 2 different notes on the same guitar would technically give you different results

All i can say, you're on the search for the holy grail, and theory is just not good enough, you would need empirical evidence from comparing a bunch of real life in-front of you guitars

And you might be suprised
 
Dutch said:
Used to be that everyone said the heavier Les Paul's and such had THE tone. Meaning bold and strong and sustain for days!

But!
Recently I have been reading a lot of stories from people using lighter guitars and raving about the sustain they have...

Case in point would be the Gil Yaron Bone, that uses lightweight Paulowna innards to a mahogany exterior shell to yield a light but very responsive and sustaining solid body guitar, but I have read from many people raving about lightweight PRS'es and even surprisingly light LPs that sustain for days. I can imagine that lighter guitars would be more resonant, but like bells: the heavier the longer they ring...

Who has experience with several weights of guitars and preferring the lighter for tone? Or the opposite of course?

Thinking of buying myself a new guitar and secretly hoping I can tell the guys to use the lightest wood they can find...
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I am very curious about this. I really like having a singing sustain, and I am sure it is of course in part a question of the pick up, but at the same time most guitars who really have a nice sustain are made from mahogany.

My go to guitar is an Ibanez that AFAIK is made from spruce (I could be wrong) and has the same amount of sustain as my mahogany Epiphone Sheraton?

Any explanations or experiences with wood choices for guitars would be much appreciated! :)

Jens
 
BBN said:
I recently built a Tele using parts from Matt Jenny (MJT), and for some reason the guitar just absolutely sings.
You just never know when or why you're going to find the 'right one'.
And that's why I love the chase....
Click to expand...

I recently (with help from a friend) finished out a baritone tele build using an older MJT body that turned out incredible. I've thought about trying to find a regular neck for it and finding another body for the baritone neck. Wondering if it might beat out my Nocaster for the #1 spot. Luck is indeed a big part of the ride...
 
Not an expert, but must have to do a lot with resonating frequencies or "own" frequencies of the instrument and string damping by the accessories. From that on it's a question of standing wave properties. The factors that come into the calculation are the capability of the instrument to come into resonance with your strings (or on the contrary, having dead frequencies which unfortunately can exist) and above all any part on your guitar that will lower sustain by absorbing the energy of your strings (notably sadles, knut and fixation of nech to body) as well as the solidity of the fixation of these parts to the instrument.
The weight of a guitar's wood parts anyway being much more important than that of the strings I do not think the weight of your guitar should intervene that much in matters of sustain, it should be mainly the quality and mounting of any string related parts and neck/body connection. And last but not least the quality of your strings themselves.
 
I think sustain would be affected by a few factors - hardware used, break angle of the strings over the nut & bridge, perhaps neck & fretboard wood & neck joint construction.

My own anecdotal experience, based on 4 different examples of the same model guitar, with the same pickups, is that heavier guitars are "harder" or ""brighter" sounding. Maybe less lower mids than the lighter guitars.
 
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From my understanding of dead/ghost notes, they happen when the string rings with the same frequency as the neck/body. I am no guitar builder but if that statement is true, then sustain itself or lack of, has to do with frequencies not being absorbed by something on the guitar, or frequencies not running in to one another from any number of things on the guitar with the body/neck. I wonder if certain Body/Neck combinations always ring out most or have the least possibility of dead notes.

I was just thinking that you could go another way, and say there is no one thing that could be causing it for instance, a bad bridge would certainly make the guitar ring out less same with having the nut not being installed properly or needing replacement. But a great bridge with a guitar that has a fret that resonates with the body/neck would also cause the guitar to not ring out in a more natural way causing a dead note that can mimic poor sustain. Either way an interesting topic:)
 
Very interesting, keep it coming!

Certainly read about Callaham bridges and tremolo blocks and such. Thought it was a bit of snake oil... The Super-Vee looks good though. It's actually a solution a designer friend of mine mentioned years before I ever heard of it. I think it's better coupling than the fulcrum/springs combo. I played one on a AxeFx meet in nl two years ago. I remember it feeling rather stiff. Compared to my Schaller Floyd.
 
I recently got a Music Man Majesty and that guitar is very light but has great sustain. It's a mahogany neck through with basswood sides.
 
I have a 65SG Gibson ...very light Big sounding guitar with 1 p90.but i m not sure if it is only the weigh that matters for great sound....
 
It's about construction, relative mass, and transfer of energy. Basically, when you pick a string, you're providing energy to the instrument. The string vibrations are the ONLY thing the pickup is picking up and consequently the only thing that goes to the amplifier. Sustain is how long that string vibrates, which is a function of how much energy it can keep for itself and not transfer to the rest of the guitar. If you have a guitar with a loose neck joint, it's not going to sustain very well because the energy from the string will be absorbed at that point (converted to motion in the joint) instead of cleanly transferring it through the material.

Vibrato add more energy to the equation. Standing in front of your amp so that the sound waves hit the strings also adds more energy to it.
 
norpe said:
I recently got a Music Man Majesty and that guitar is very light but has great sustain. It's a mahogany neck through with basswood sides.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a great wood combo. With a neck through design, the guitar is basically whatever the neck material is. The consensus is that the sides contribute maybe 10% to the total sound. That's why maple neck through designs sound bright or harsh. In your case, Mahogany being warm and basswood being very neutral, makes for a nice one. ;)
 
I am all about light guitars now even chambered and hollow's like Tom Anderson't stuff. I have had the Heavy LP's and Super Heavy 79 Strats. Did they sound good? Yup they sounded freaking awesome but my two current guitars under 6 lbs both sound amazing as well. The sing and have this airiness to them. No more heavy guitars for me
 
I think part of the issue is we are confusing two issues:
1. Weight of the material a guitar is made out of
2. Density & plasticity of the material a guitar is made out of.

For example, the speed of sound through air is 343 m/s.
The speed of sound through aluminum is 3100-6400 m/s.
The speed of sound through hardwood is 3960 m/s
The speed of sound through less dense wood is 3300-3600 m/s.

The speed of sound is impacted by the plasticity of the material (or medium in the case of air).

So since aluminum has more plasticity in transmitting a sound wave faster than some woods, perhaps that is why guitars like the Travis Beane tend to have more sustain than some other guitars.

Perhaps some of the lighter weight guitars have more sustain than their heavier counterparts due to the material being more dense and having more plasticity than some heavier weight guitars that are made of materials that have less density and less plasticity?

Just a thought.
 
The resonance of the body wood plays a larger role than the weight when it comes to sustain. If you've got a rather dead sounding piece of wood, it will absorb the vibrations of the string, killing the sustain. A resonant piece of wood will more freely pass along the energy of the vibrations rather than absorb it, at least at certain frequencies. The tricky part is how the string interacts with the body resonances and what frequencies get reinforced and which ones get cancelled out. This has as much to do with tone as it does sustain. Some guitars just sound better than others because of this complex interaction.

String size and mass plays a role too. In theory, larger, heavier strings will have more inertia when plucked and will therefore sustain longer. Lower tuning will sustain better as well, since lower frequencies are less quickly absorbed by most materials compared to high frequencies. Compare a the sustain of a bass guitar vs a mandolin. All of this however depends on the interaction with the guitar body as well. A guitar that sounds dead and lifeless with one size of strings and tuning, might sound great and sustain for days with with a different size strings and/or tuning. All of these factors interact, so it's often trial and error to find the best combination for any given instrument. For example, my Ibanez acoustic sounds decent at standard tuning, but if I tune down a whole step (D-G-C-F-A-D) it's like a completely different guitar. It's more crisp, punchy, and has a ton more clarity and sustain. Every guitar is different.
 
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