Lie To Me - looking for feedback on dynamics and balance

Hi everyone,

A few years ago I was in a band called Straw Man Complex. It was a heavy rock/not quite metal band that wrote radio-friendly songs. We had a lot of fun, and I recently moved back in with my singer from those days.

For poops and giggles, we've started writing again and I'm working up some rough sketches of songs which he uses to write melodies and lyrics. This is the first such thing we've started work on. The way he's writing the vocals (not recorded), this one is going in a very Fair To Midland direction. Musically speaking, it's not complicated. But sonically I feel like this is a big step forward from my previous work.



Here's the form:
Intro (keyboard solo not yet written) - 8 bars
Verse #1 - 8 bars
Chorus #1 - 8 bars
Interlude - 4 bars
Verse #2 - 8 bars
Chorus #2 - 8 bars
-Abrupt ending because I have no idea what's next


This demo is just 1 guitar (DC7X w/Ionizers > Axe-FX II > direct USB), 1 bass (Schecter Stiletto Custom 4 > Cali76 TX-P > Axe-FX II > direct USB), and the a Toontrack Metal Machine library (programmed via MIDI keyboard and manual editing in Pro Tools).

I have found that after 12 years of making music in Pro Tools that I get the best results when I shoot for simple, despite my audio engineer impulses to make everything complicated. I did very little in terms of plugins on individual tracks, but you can see I've got the master bus loaded with dynamics modules.

Lie%20To%20Me%200.4%20mix_zpsqdra8ppv.jpg


About the mix:

My methodology was to try and get it sounding as good as possible going into Pro Tools so that I can keep the mix processing simple. Over the years, I've spent a lot of money on gear and plugins, so I wanted to resist throwing on a bunch of crap that wasn't really necessary just because I have it.

The guitar and bass have a little compression going on from the Waves CLA Classics bundle. These are my favorite compressors to use in a mix. The LA3 does a really nice job of smoothing out any needles in the guitar tone without taking out the teeth. If I'm looking for an aggressive bass tone, I usually lean toward the black 1176 model. If I'm working on a bass tone that needs to be a bit more full and natural, I'll opt for the LA-2A model.

The drums are going multi-out, and there is no processing happening inside of SD's mixer. When I'm using the SD libraries I usually have a bunch of processing happening on each individual track, but since the EZ libraries are already pre-processed, I just wanted to add a little mojo. Each drum out is running through Slate's VTM, and then I've got SD's mono room mic getting crushed by an 1176 and a bit of additive EQ from the Schepps 1073 plugin. I did a parallel compression bus for the kick/snare and room tone, which really gives these drums some attitude.

The master bus is the 2track VTM followed by the SSL Bus Compressor (this is almost always the first plugin on my master bus), then the JJP Fairchild plugin, and finally an L3 MultiMaximizer to squash everything into your face. There's also no automation running here; just static levels. I haven't taken this out to the car and compared with other music yet, but I'm pretty pleased with how this is sounding.

How does this mix sound to you guys, in terms of the tones, balance between the instruments, and overall punchiness and dynamics of the track? Any suggestions, advice, or other feedback (besides to stop writing sucky music :p)?

**BTW: Lie To Me is the working title for the song. Don't lie to me about your opinions, no matter how harsh or hater-esque it may sound.**
 
Wow. If this had some powerful vocals on it I could listen to this all day. Good stuff. Sorry I don't want to talk out my ass about mixing because I know very little but it sounds pretty good. The guitars might need to come out of the forefront and make room for some vocals I think
 

I'm not shure, but i don't find it muddy. It sounds very concentrated to me. I like the bassy sound but i also like offsets in depth.
Par example i wouldn't pan the bass left and right or the kick. Maybe the guitar tracks left and right, not in the middle.
Why is this "Ambience" track so "loud" compare to the others...

Only brainstorming...

cheers
Marco
 
Sounds really great to me! The sound has a special feel, that's very nice cause it's not boring!
Just Because i have to...: what amps & IR's?
And thanks for sharing!
 
Thanks for all the feedback! The bottom end was excessive on the earlier version. I'm mixing in a new environment, so I am still getting a feel for how the low end comes across with this setup. Here's the latest iteration, with everything a bit more finessed:



My singer has some cool ideas, so I'm excited to see where this goes.
 
Sounds really great to me! The sound has a special feel, that's very nice cause it's not boring!
Just Because i have to...: what amps & IR's?
And thanks for sharing!

Thanks, man! I'm a huge fan of VHT/Fryette amps. I have a 50 watt Pittbull CL, so I lean on the Fryette D60M in the Axe-FX to approximate that tone. I am using the F048: 4x12 German Boutique cab with a U87 mic option. Here are some screenshots of the settings:

Ult%20Dist%20Sn1_zpsftylsefu.jpg


Ult%20Dist%20Sn1%20cab_zps5pbmlmsb.jpg


The bass is running through the SV Bass and 8x10 cab sims in the Axe-FX, but that Cali-76 pedal out in front is a HUGE help in getting a really fat sounding bass tone. I'm also running the bass through the D60M (but it's blended softly) so there is a little extra harmonic cohesion between the bass and guitar. Here are the amp settings:

Bass%20Dist%20Amp2%20Sn1_zpst6ztpiuu.jpg
 
I'm not shure, but i don't find it muddy. It sounds very concentrated to me. I like the bassy sound but i also like offsets in depth.
Par example i wouldn't pan the bass left and right or the kick. Maybe the guitar tracks left and right, not in the middle.
Why is this "Ambience" track so "loud" compare to the others...

Only brainstorming...

cheers
Marco

Yeah, the bass and guitar are both dead center, so there isn't a lot of width to this at all. The engineer in me wants to double track guitars left and right, but the musician in me says to pan the guitar and bass slightly L and R respectively so that it sounds like a rock trio playing live on stage (old school Van Halen style).

I have extra gain on the ambiance track because I think Toontracks samples sound better when you squeeze out more of the built-in room tone than adding IR reverbs. I like a bit of that boomy, warehouse kind of room tone. Otherwise these samples can be a bit too dry for my taste.
 
Thanks for your reply! So... I have to check those factory cabs again and the fryette :p
 
Great Riffs and Tones Russ!

The guitars have a very mid-centric and aggressive tone which really pins them into a good spot for mixing.

Love the bass tone! Has that dUg (King's X) type of growl to it.

For my 'bag-of-bones' preferrences:

a) whatever you did timbre-wise to the guitars for your second iteration, please, for the love of all that is right and just - don't change!
b) drop the guitar level down
c) bring that gorgeous bass up
d) see if you can hype the low-end on the kick drums a bit (very good attack (from the beater), but not a lot of punch that could be there)

This could really turn into something for KUPD. ;)
 
Love the bass tone! Has that dUg (King's X) type of growl to it.

:D When I was a teenager, I didn't have any appreciation for rock bass tone. The bass was usually just a background piece in my musical focus, and everyone I knew had crappy gear, so I had never been impressed by a fat, growly bass. Then I saw King's X, I forget if they were opening for Steve Vai or a G3 tour, but I'd never heard them before. I was 2nd row in front of dUg's cabinet, and without a word they launched right into Dogman. Needless to say, the bass blew my mind.

So thank you! That's a huge compliment! As for your other preferences, I'm in agreement. Since the guitar and bass are dead center, I played around with the stereo imager and harmonic exciter in Ozone5 to add some more dimension. It did that, but it mangled the phase on the low end in the process, so all the oomph from the kick went away. I bounced a new mix without that stuff and gave the kick an extra half dB in the mix; it's back to punching me in face with a side of beef.

I've been trying to get a feel for a new mastering limiter plugin (the L3 MM). It's neat to see how far the music can be squashed, but when driving around in my car this track is quick to fatigue my ears. I think the bass and guitar will settle a little better when I back off the threshold a little bit.

This could really turn into something for KUPD. ;)

That's what I keep telling my singer! I'm not trying to start a career as a rock star at 30, but it'd be fun to get out and play some shows. Are you local?
 
That's what I keep telling my singer! I'm not trying to start a career as a rock star at 30, but it'd be fun to get out and play some shows. Are you local?

Unfortunately, I'm not local anymore - still loco of course, but no longer local (in AZ). :(

Hopefully, in the very near future I will be. :D
 
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