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Level vs. Master Vol.

Discussion in 'Axe-Fx II Discussion' started by Megaguitar, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Megaguitar

    Megaguitar
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    Hello all

    There is a guy named Leon Todd on Youtube who posts lots of AX8 and recently Axe III.
    In one of his many videos, he mentioned about increasing the level on Amp (it usually around 13.5 db) to 10~9 db, and decrease the master volume to 7-ish.
    And I followed exactly what he did and it seemed like sound is more alive and much more pleasing to my ear.
    Why does sound so much better? what did it do by changing those two knobs? Is it same as just increasing the output knob on Axe FX II unit???
    Has anyone done this b4 and does anyone know why it sounds so much better???

    Appreciate your help!~!
    Take care
     
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  2. jlynnb1

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    have you ever used a real amp before? the Level control its strictly a volume control that doesn't affect the gain in the amp at all, just makes it louder or quieter and doesn't exist on real amps. the Master Volume is an actual control from amps, controls the power amp and how hard it works. on vintage amps you may want it wide open to get a lot fo power tube breakup. on higher gain/more modern amps you want the power amp to stay clean so the tone is tight, you let the preamp do the work, so you lower it to tighten it up. some amps are more sensitive to this than others.

    @2112 uses Mesas a lot which are very sensitive to how much MV you use, so it makes sense that he'd advise turning it down. This isn't a rule, but something that is very dependent on the amp being used and what you are trying to accomplish.
     
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  3. 2112

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  4. milleniumking

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    I play around with this a lot as well, however the results are not that cut n dry. Definately depends on the amp used. With the high gain amps it takes a lot of tweaking for me: especially using the 5153 red and using a 7 string. Leon Todd, do you have any suggestions on that regarding the MV and Output levels setting? Great vids on Youtube by the way, they have really helped me with my Axe ii.
     
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  5. Megaguitar

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    Let me ask one more thing, what do u mean by MV to be wide opened to get a lot of power tube break-up on vintage amp? Did u mean turn the MV down or up?
     
  6. Lurker

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    It depends on the amp but in that situation they're saying you'd want it turned up generally speaking. For a Marshall Plexi you might prefer the sound with the MV on 10, whereas a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier at such a setting would sound awful and you might want it set closer to 2. They react differently.
     
  7. lqdsnddist

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    Also keep in mind some amps don’t have a master volume, like most Fenders, so in that case the MV setting defaults to 10
     
  8. chris

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    wide open means all the way up. think of a water hose. wide open means the water is coming out as much as possible because you've opened it all the way. wide open. the most possible.
     
  9. Geezerjohn

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    In my humble opinion, it depends on the preset and which amp you’re using. One of the great things about the AXE is the ability to experiment. With some persistence and effort, you can dial-in awesome tone.
     
  10. dpeterson

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    Without blowing your ears and amp up...
     
  11. #11 blearyeyes, Sep 14, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    blearyeyes

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    The Master Volume determines how hard you are driving the power amp section with the preamp output. You can change the placement of the MV in the amp block.
     
  12. Megaguitar

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    how do u do that??? isn't MV within the amp block as default???
     
  13. Rex

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    I’m not Leon, but here’s what to do with Master Volume.

    Start with MV low, say around 2. Dial in the amount of distortion you want, then slowly raise MV, and listen to what happens. As you turn up MV, you’ll hear the sound get fuller and fatter. At some point, it may start to get fatty and muddy. You’ve gone too far. Dial it back down until the fartiness goes away, but it still sounds full. There you are. :)
     
  14. blearyeyes

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    Screen Shot 2018-09-14 at 11.08.26 PM.png
    The Power Amp section of the amp block/ MV Location


    . Screen Shot 2018-09-14 at 11.10.37 PM.png

    The Input Trim and the Level controls only change the levels at the in and out of the amp block but do not affect the modeling directly like the Input Drive and Master Volume do.
     
  15. milleniumking

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    Will give it a try, I think I have already but I will try again!

    Thax!
     
  16. unix-guy

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    I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say there... But be aware that the Input Trim does affect the output signal of the Amp block because it is an input signal boost / cut, which alters the gain.

    This is why the manual talks about setting it to .5 to emulate the Low input on some amps (like Fenders).

    The Output Level does not affect the "gain" of the Amp block, only its overall volume, and in that sense is "outside" the Amp block modeling.
     
  17. #17 blearyeyes, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:47 PM
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018 at 11:59 PM
    blearyeyes

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    Yep. The input trim will trim the input. But it doesn't have DIRECT control of the model like the gain/drive or master volume. It does affect the amount of signal going into the model. I know it's hard to say... IOW when you adjust the Drive/MV controls it changes the way the model is responding/working whereas adjusting the input trim only does what it says. Just like the Output control doesn't change the model just the output amplitude.

    Or: The Input Trim and the Level controls only change the amplitude at the in and out of the amp block but do not affect the modeling algorithms directly like the Input Drive and Master Volume do.

    That is how I understand it.
     
  18. Rex

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    Both Input Drive and Input Trim are parts of the modeling algorithm and directly affect how the model behaves. The difference is that the gain control (Input Drive) on a real amp can affect the EQ of the preamp along with affecting the gain. But Input Trim changes the gain without changing the EQ, so the amp's voicing stays the same.
     
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  19. blearyeyes

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    How does the input trim change the behavior of the Model? Just curious.
     
  20. Rex

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    Input Trim is part of the model. Turn it up, and the model distorts earlier. If it’s already distorting, it distorts harder. Turn it down, and the amp cleans up and becomes more dynamic.

    Try turning Input Trim way down, and play a few notes. Then turn it way up. You’ll hear a radical difference in the way it behaves. :)
     

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