Level Question

deazle

New Member
I've been noticing that some of my preset levels drop significantly when I play live. At home, plugged into a K10, they seem equal in volume. And I've matched the VU meters on all the presets I use live. Here's the confusing part. My higher gain presets seem louder at home. But at the gig, they disappear. I was using IEM last night and really noticed it. And a friend at the club noticed it out front. Is this an EQ thing? I'm very new to the amp modeling world, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
I've been noticing that some of my preset levels drop significantly when I play live. At home, plugged into a K10, they seem equal in volume. And I've matched the VU meters on all the presets I use live. Here's the confusing part. My higher gain presets seem louder at home. But at the gig, they disappear. I was using IEM last night and really noticed it. And a friend at the club noticed it out front. Is this an EQ thing? I'm very new to the amp modeling world, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Not trying to be snarky—are you new to gigging? This is pretty much true of amps and modelers alike. More gain means harder to cut through at same volume.
 
Plus....higher gain at higher levels = more compression. Usually at higher volumes I will dial back the gain. I still get similar tone because of the higher volume.
 
I've been noticing that some of my preset levels drop significantly when I play live. At home, plugged into a K10, they seem equal in volume. And I've matched the VU meters on all the presets I use live. Here's the confusing part. My higher gain presets seem louder at home. But at the gig, they disappear. I was using IEM last night and really noticed it. And a friend at the club noticed it out front. Is this an EQ thing? I'm very new to the amp modeling world, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
There are a few things at play here.

The VU meters can only get you relatively close. Once the presets are used in a live situation there are a lot of things that can affect their perceived levels when compared to the way they seem by yourself, at home.

The 'Fletcher Munson' effect is one. Cutting some highs and boosting some mids helps here.

Certain frequencies being crowded by other band members is another one. Cutting some highs and boosting some mids can help here too.

Generally speaking, clean tones have more dynamics than dirty tones. In a live situation, we probably all play a little harder? Your clean tones will actually play louder, whereas the dirty tones (because of the inherent compression) will mostly only get dirtier, not louder.

The changing dynamics of the band is another one. Generally speaking, clean tones are 'usually' accompanied by the band playing softer. So the clean tones cut through more easily. The dirtier tones are 'usually' accompanied by the band playing harder. So the dirty tones have a harder time cutting through by default. Sometimes the same preset/scene can cut through just fine in one song, or section of a song. Then not seem to cut through in another the song, or section of song. This has caused me to adopt a preset per song methodology. Even though many of them are just copies of the same preset, their levels, EQ, and effects levels have been tweaked to match the conditions of that particular song.

You have to make (mental) notes during live shows, then go back and tweak some levels and or EQ for the presets. It takes several rounds to get them to a good place, but once you do, it's worth it.
 
+1 to Moke's extremely thorough rundown of the issues. I strongly suspect some combination of the different factors he lists is what the OP is experiencing.
 
There are a few things at play here.

The VU meters can only get you relatively close. Once the presets are used in a live situation there are a lot of things that can affect their perceived levels when compared to the way they seem by yourself, at home.

The 'Fletcher Munson' effect is one. Cutting some highs and boosting some mids helps here.

Certain frequencies being crowded by other band members is another one. Cutting some highs and boosting some mids can help here too.

Generally speaking, clean tones have more dynamics than dirty tones. In a live situation, we probably all play a little harder? Your clean tones will actually play louder, whereas the dirty tones (because of the inherent compression) will mostly only get dirtier, not louder.

The changing dynamics of the band is another one. Generally speaking, clean tones are 'usually' accompanied by the band playing softer. So the clean tones cut through more easily. The dirtier tones are 'usually' accompanied by the band playing harder. So the dirty tones have a harder time cutting through by default. Sometimes the same preset/scene can cut through just fine in one song, or section of a song. Then not seem to cut through in another the song, or section of song. This has caused me to adopt a preset per song methodology. Even though many of them are just copies of the same preset, their levels, EQ, and effects levels have been tweaked to match the conditions of that particular song.

You have to make (mental) notes during live shows, then go back and tweak some levels and or EQ for the presets. It takes several rounds to get them to a good place, but once you do, it's worth it.
Great advice @Moke
I had the same thing happen at a gig using the Brit 800 #34 in a preset. What’s your advice for this particular amp? Should I start with amp EQ and roll back some highs and boost mids? I have seen Leon roll back the bottom frequencies, boost mids and roll back some of high frequencies. Also, I think rolling back the gain a bit may also help. Thanks.
 
Back
Top Bottom