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Let’s talk tone: phase inverter, power amp, speaker breakup

mikeyg

Experienced
One of my favorite hard rock tones is Hot Blooded by Foreigner.

It’s raw, mean, honky and nasty.

ive only once managed to get this tone from a tube amp, I mean really nailed it. And that was with a reissue Plexi that had both a pre and post phase inverter master.

part of my challenge was volume. I couldn’t crank the amp without decent control of the final volume. That’s no longer an issue.

so with the aforementioned amp, I could drive the phase inverter hard, which gave me that throaty nasty tone.

when I crank the Marshall plexi models I don’t get the same nastiness. I think I may need to go to deeper parameters? Could it maybe be a late 70s JMP they used?

Suggestions?
 

mikeyg

Experienced
Actually I just read through the Cygnus modeling changes and you may be right. It specifically mentions nasty in the write up heheh
 

warlockII

Power User
York audio posted a plexi preset awhile back using his m25 ir(2 of them). With my guitar, it's so close to that tone that I use it to play that song.
 

maxdown

Fractal Fanatic
Agree ... it's a ripper of a guitar track

A bit of info here: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...gnature-amp-moves-forward.792334/post-9323113

Then there's the production model they brought out based on MJ's proto .... the 'HeadKnocker' : http://hipkittyproducts.com/amplifier-purchase/7782-HeadKnocker-100-Watt-All-Tube-Amplifer-Head

I think his original Harry Kolbe modded Plexi used 6L6s but not much else floating about relating to the tone modding

The Hiwatt cab with Fanes must have contributed a fair bit to the tone too

Last I heard Mick was using JCM 900s and v30s in iso cabs live ..... so maybe his HipKitty partnership ended ... or never really began?

His 57 LP had modified wiring too I think - full on blew straight from pickup to jack - no vol or tone pots in the way.
 

mikeyg

Experienced
I’m not looking to specifically nail Mick’s tone, although that would be awesome.

it’s more about having the ability to replicate that driven phase inverter sound.
 

mikeyg

Experienced
This is as close as I can get right now. It's actually pretty close I think. It has the nasal honk.

EQ'd for ~95 dB

Hot Blooded
 
Last edited:

mikeyg

Experienced
Agree ... it's a ripper of a guitar track

A bit of info here: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...gnature-amp-moves-forward.792334/post-9323113

Then there's the production model they brought out based on MJ's proto .... the 'HeadKnocker' : http://hipkittyproducts.com/amplifier-purchase/7782-HeadKnocker-100-Watt-All-Tube-Amplifer-Head

I think his original Harry Kolbe modded Plexi used 6L6s but not much else floating about relating to the tone modding

The Hiwatt cab with Fanes must have contributed a fair bit to the tone too

Last I heard Mick was using JCM 900s and v30s in iso cabs live ..... so maybe his HipKitty partnership ended ... or never really began?

His 57 LP had modified wiring too I think - full on blew straight from pickup to jack - no vol or tone pots in the way.

The song Headknocker is one of my favorites by them

 

mikeyg

Experienced
Agree ... it's a ripper of a guitar track

A bit of info here: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...gnature-amp-moves-forward.792334/post-9323113

Then there's the production model they brought out based on MJ's proto .... the 'HeadKnocker' : http://hipkittyproducts.com/amplifier-purchase/7782-HeadKnocker-100-Watt-All-Tube-Amplifer-Head

I think his original Harry Kolbe modded Plexi used 6L6s but not much else floating about relating to the tone modding

The Hiwatt cab with Fanes must have contributed a fair bit to the tone too

Last I heard Mick was using JCM 900s and v30s in iso cabs live ..... so maybe his HipKitty partnership ended ... or never really began?

His 57 LP had modified wiring too I think - full on blew straight from pickup to jack - no vol or tone pots in the way.

They have a website with products listed for sale, and the Headknocker is one of them
 

marshall2553

Experienced
One of my favorite hard rock tones is Hot Blooded by Foreigner.

It’s raw, mean, honky and nasty.

ive only once managed to get this tone from a tube amp, I mean really nailed it. And that was with a reissue Plexi that had both a pre and post phase inverter master.

part of my challenge was volume. I couldn’t crank the amp without decent control of the final volume. That’s no longer an issue.

so with the aforementioned amp, I could drive the phase inverter hard, which gave me that throaty nasty tone.

when I crank the Marshall plexi models I don’t get the same nastiness. I think I may need to go to deeper parameters? Could it maybe be a late 70s JMP they used?

Suggestions?
You can change the location of the master volume on the advanced page. Setting it to post phase inverter will make it nastier sounding.
 

mikeyg

Experienced
Yeah the amp I had was a non-master reissue Plexi. Modded by David Bray for a PPIMV, and by somebody else with a normal (pre-PI) master.

So I want to use the Plexi because I'm fairly sure Mick used one back in the day, and since it doesn't have a master, I'm wondering how I can simulate the sound of the phase inverter pushed, which is really crunchy and rude (I say this based on what I heard, not because I know the physics behind it).

Anyway, as I've been playing around, I'm finding that I can get really close with no special tweaking. The patch above Ive tweaked and replaced a couple times if anyone wants to check it out. The solo is particularly rude, in a good way, Im still working on that :cool:
 
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