Learning scales the easy way.

rickbarclay

Inspired
Today, after four years of intense study, chart making, and other maneuvers, I finally realized
how easy it is to learn whatever scale I want by opening up Guitar Pro and printing out diatonic patterns
of the whatever scale I want.

For example, to learn the diatonic patterns of C major, start with C on the 8th fret of the open E. From the beginning
it's: sixth string 8th, 10th, 12; fifth string, 8, 10, 12; fourth string, 9, 10, 12 third string, 9, 10, 12; second string, 10,12;
first string 8, 10, 12.

Pattern two starts on D-10th fret; pattern 3--from the open E; pattern 4 from fret 1 (F) of the open E; pattern 5 from third fret (G);
pattern 6 from the fifth fret (A); pattern 7 from the 7th fret (B); back to the beginning.

I hope I'm making sense to everybody out there. I'm a scale nut and this will help me even if it doesn't anyone else. Just trying to help.

Would like to hear response to this and get other ideas and suggestions, tips, and tricks we all use to improve our playing. Thanks a bunch for reading.
 
CAGED system is the first learning method. Every chord has a scale shape that surrounds it and vice versa. If you know your pentatonics you need to add in two notes per octave into each shape.

The second system is to learn the same octave in five different fingerboard positions. THis usually distills down to three patterns that are viable and they also isolate the unique tuning system of the guitar and let you understand it a lot better.

The third is the three note per string system which is great for economy picking.

The fourth uses tetrachords.

The fifth utilises one octave across two strings which is very useful for three octave scales and also for traversing huge areas of the neck in very little time.

The sixth method is to play the scale in harmonic intervals, fifths, and thirds.

As an aside, the best way to train your ear in tandem is to sing the name of the note as you play it. If you do this you will subconsciously program in the note and finger locations and will lead you to be able to play what you sing, and therefore improvise a lot more fluidly.

I hope this helps. If you need more informations PM me as I do this full time and am a grade system examiner.
 
Thanks D. I've got brain overload already. I overlooked the Caged system. I'll add it to my to do list. Your other terms I've heard of but never researched. I'll Google them. I love to sing, but I
seem to end up coughing every time I do. That really sucks. If you have more suggestions, I'd love to see them. Is there anything you can show me that I can't get on the Internet? I would PM
you if so. Thanks.
 
If you have a normal tuning (EADGBE), have GuitarPro show you the scale if you tuned in 4ths (EADGCF, for example). Note how the pattern of the scale will suddenly become much more uniform, and a pattern will go across each fret, BEADGCF. The reason that I mention this is that you can think of the B string as "shifting" the simplest (4ths) pattern by one fret, thereby making it much harder to memorize. It's also might be interesting to do the same thing that you're looking at now, except with a 7 or 8 string guitar, as it will help to make the patterns even more obvious.

Anyway, keep up your studies, I'm sure they will pay off, big-time! :)

See method 2. It sorts out the tuning system of the guitar in a very subconscious way.
 
Thanks D. I've got brain overload already. I overlooked the Caged system. I'll add it to my to do list. Your other terms I've heard of but never researched. I'll Google them. I love to sing, but I
seem to end up coughing every time I do. That really sucks. If you have more suggestions, I'd love to see them. Is there anything you can show me that I can't get on the Internet? I would PM
you if so. Thanks.

Feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to Skype.
 
Well, I wouldn't say its easy. I think easy is the wrong term. There are so many tools, systems, methods, techniques, schools, videos, books, out there for free or for sale and all involve the same requirements....WORK.
It doesn't matter which approach you take. My suggestion is to find out which of these systems you understand and then WORK hard on them.

So whether its a formula or a visual representation, it will require some work and dedication to become fluent in it.
Once you master that then you should find it easier to do a number of things such as communicate musically, craft your artwork, replicate pieces of work, understand what other people are doing and collaborate...to name a few of the benefits.

Good luck.
 
And to think someone wasted their time with pesky notes names.

You know what? That's absolutely correct. The melodic intervallic relationship between two notes has absolutely nothing to do with names and has everything to do with their sonic identities. Singing the note names is the most overlooked but important aspect of learning techniques. If we did this in the context of contemporary playing we would be awash with Hendrix's and Gilmours. :)
 
So whether its a formula or a visual representation

This is more down to learning preference, visual, kinaesthetic, auditory.... etc. Any teacher you have who is worth their salt should be able to differentiate between learning styles..... else, they should not term themselves as a teacher.

However, all will involve significant time investment.
 
However, all will involve significant time investment.

This holds true for most people. I had a friend who had perfect pitch and was also subjected to music at an early age. I felt like we put in the same amount of "time investment" after school with our guitars but he clearly picked up his understanding of the fret board a lot quicker than myself. I think I spent too much time trying to copy songs and solos and not enough time on what seemed like the uninteresting fundamentals of it all.
 
This holds true for most people. I had a friend who had perfect pitch and was also subjected to music at an early age. I felt like we put in the same amount of "time investment" after school with our guitars but he clearly picked up his understanding of the fret board a lot quicker than myself. I think I spent too much time trying to copy songs and solos and not enough time on what seemed like the uninteresting fundamentals of it all.

An interesting thing about people with perfect pitch is that when a melody is heard in a different key it can appear alien. Given this circumstance, give me perfect relative pitch rather than perfect pitch any day.
 
Caged system for Major, pentatonic, Blues, harmonic and melodic minor scales is a must. Three note per string patterns are also good

These are your basic ingredients, understanding how these scales relate to each other and can be used is vital for good musical fluency.

Practicing these all in various keys will help you accomplish more musical freedom and improve your inner ear.
 
Thanks for the offer Big D, but I don't Skype is an option for me, as I'm slow to pick things up and get frustrated very easily. It's best I do things in black and white.

And A to T, you're right, of course. It's still a pain in the ass typing the right notes into the tab. What would be easier would be for Guitar Pro to allow you to tab
a scale without typing. I don't know the program very well at all, as I have never put it to serious use until now, more than a year since I d/l'd it. If anybody knows
how, that would certainly help save me a lot of typing time. I work diligently at whatever phase of guitar music I'm currently pursuing. The problem with that is
simply that after tirelessly practicing C7, F7, and G7 arpeggios for a week or more, I get tired of it and need to move onto something fresh. Then I'll go back
periodically and practice the arps for a while, then move to something else. I tend to cycle through these things in order to keep my interest peaked. So, in essence,
I never really own the arpeggios thru the whole fretboard, but rather reacquaint myself with what I've learned so far and hopefully pick up an additional note or three.
My musical aptitude seems limited.

The time investment thing is certainly real. I never had the time to invest while I was raising my family but was only able to get into guitar seriously after retirement and after
the development of the Internet. Without the Internet I'd still be struggling with pentatonics. I've tried lessons and both me and the instructor agreed that I should look elsewhere
for improvement. Any acknowledged "gifted" person will tell you that just because they have extreme skills doesn't mean they don't have to study and practice. That notion is sheer
nonsense.

As for note names being pesky, I kind of agree, but I think it is useful when one is looking for a specific note. But I tend to do my playing in boxes and patterns and
using tablature helps a lot in doing this. And of course, if we all were Hendrix's, we wouldn't be here now, would we?

Thanks for the replies. Keep'em coming.
 
Fellow Fractal forum member dat dere tone's video showing the 3 notes per string scales in all 7 positions. http://youtu.be/ub-BigxcDvc?t=1m55s

shows the 3 fingering shapes
fingering shape #1 - 3 times
fingering shape #2 - 2 times
fingering shape #3 - 2 times
this sequence repeats over and over...
 
And A to T, you're right, of course. It's still a pain in the ass typing the right notes into the tab. What would be easier would be for Guitar Pro to allow you to tab
a scale without typing. I don't know the program very well at all, as I have never put it to serious use until now, more than a year since I d/l'd it. If anybody knows
how, that would certainly help save me a lot of typing time.
You might want to take a look at Chord chart and fretboard diagram software for guitar, bass, banjo, ukulele and ANY fretted instrument | Neckdiagrams.com if what you're after is an aid to making visualisation tools.
 
I haven't read much of what's in this thread yet, just the gist of it.
And since nobody's mentioned the Berklee/William Leavitt thing yet I thought I'd chime in.

As detailed in Leavitt's 3 A" Modern Method For Guitar" volumes (as well as in my own book) this is by far the most organized and logically self-consistent approach to scale fingerings (as well as the ways they intersect for reading and sight-reading purposes) that I have ever seen.

As a teacher of jazz guitar at the college level since 1986 I'm always looking for approaches to the guitar that are better than Leavitt's system but I have yet to see anything else that's nearly as compelling.

When I was studying with Mick Goodrick, circa 1973-4, he showed me some ways that Leavitt's thing can be a great conceptual aid with improvising as well.

My take on it all, as a really quick summary, is that it is the study of how, when and why to utilize finger-stretches (1st finger stretches and 4th finger stretches) and, by extension, when to avoid them by simply changing position.
It gives you the tools to learn (or to come up with on the fly) fingerings for ANY scale in ANY position as well as the corollary to that which is being able to play ANY scale in EVERY position.
You might find that some positions are easier to deal with than some of the others, many of which will seem awkward at first.
But many of the fingerings that seem awkward at first won't feel that way for long if you work on them and IMO they all have their uses as far as phrasing possibilities go.

The downside to Leavitt's thing, of course, is being overwhelmed with too many possibilities.
But if you stick with it you'll find your own path through his stuff.

Bottom line:
There is no single "right" way to approach single-note line fingerings on the guitar.
Leavitt's thing just happens to be a very good approach and it's as logically consistent as any single-note fingering system for the guitar has ever been.

His other books (e.g. Reading Studies For Guitar, Advanced Reading Studies For Guitar, Melodic Rhythms For Guitar and Classical Studies For Pick-Style Guitar) help to thresh out the broader strokes of his approach too.

I highly recommend going through all of his books cover-to-cover (especially the 3 "Method" books), for anyone who is trying to become a pro.
 
For example, to learn the diatonic patterns of C major, start with C on the 8th fret of the open E. From the beginning
it's: sixth string 8th, 10th, 12; fifth string, 8, 10, 12; fourth string, 9, 10, 12 third string, 9, 10, 12; second string, 10,12;
first string 8, 10, 12.

Pattern two starts on D-10th fret; pattern 3--from the open E; pattern 4 from fret 1 (F) of the open E; pattern 5 from third fret (G);
pattern 6 from the fifth fret (A); pattern 7 from the 7th fret (B); back to the beginning.

so starting from a different note in the scale, if i play the same notes of the original scale, i'll be playing the original scale?
 
Today, after four years of intense study, chart making, and other maneuvers, I finally realized
how easy it is to learn whatever scale I want by opening up Guitar Pro and printing out diatonic patterns
of the whatever scale I want.

For example, to learn the diatonic patterns of C major, start with C on the 8th fret of the open E. From the beginning
it's: sixth string 8th, 10th, 12; fifth string, 8, 10, 12; fourth string, 9, 10, 12 third string, 9, 10, 12; second string, 10,12;
first string 8, 10, 12.

Pattern two starts on D-10th fret; pattern 3--from the open E; pattern 4 from fret 1 (F) of the open E; pattern 5 from third fret (G);
pattern 6 from the fifth fret (A); pattern 7 from the 7th fret (B); back to the beginning.

I hope I'm making sense to everybody out there. I'm a scale nut and this will help me even if it doesn't anyone else. Just trying to help.

Would like to hear response to this and get other ideas and suggestions, tips, and tricks we all use to improve our playing. Thanks a bunch for reading.

I use a program called: Chords and Scales
http://www.desktopmetronome.com/wpsite/products/chords-scales/

What i like about it is that it allows you to select a scale pattern, anywhere on the neck, just by highlighting the frets and then choosing the scale.
I made some diagrams when I was studying the CAGED /EDCAG system. (See image below: The C chord shape, C Arpeggio and C Pentatonic Scale)
The chord shape, the Arpeggio shape and the Pentatonic Scale shape.
You can make it show the name of the notes (C, E, G) or the scale degrees (1st, 3rd, 5th)
It made learning the whole neck a lot easier by taking one shape a time, and then linking all the five shapes together.

CAGED is for the Major chord shapes.
EDCAG is for the minor chord shapes.
Next move on to the 7th's (Dominant, Major 7th and Minor 7th)

While learning your chord and scale shapes, practice landing on target tones.
Example: Loop a C chord, play some notes in the C Pentatonic Scale and then end your phrase by landing on the C or tonic, then the E or 3rd, then the G or 5th.
It's great ear training. You'll recognize those notes.
So many great solo phrases resolve to the chord tones.
Not all the time, that would be boring, but they end up being used quite often.
Once you master the basics, it's easier to build your own musical ideas.

I recently watched an Andy Timmons video on the Truefire website.
Electric Expression - Guitar Lessons - Andy Timmons - TrueFire

Andy does a great job explaining how he uses the above to create his songs.
Check out Electric Gypsy.

Scales by themselves are ok, but when you combine them tastefully based on the chord progression...
That's when the magic happens.

C Major form.jpg
 
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I use this for chord research. Best I've found so far, imo, and I've searched many and even bought the Guy's Grids series of chord books.

OOlimo | Guitar Chord Finder

Chris afaIk, yes. Play a D major scale starting on F#: F# G A B C# E D. You'll always be in D major. And the patterns for each and every scale is the same, just like pentatonics. And
they combine effortlessly. I don't know the major scale that well and what I find myself doing is slipping into the pentatonic realm whenever I start to falter in the major scale. When you add
arpeggios to the mix you start to realize that you could play forever among those three without stopping or getting bored. Add to that all the stuff posted here plus modes, and it begins
to boggle the mind what can be done.
 
Have a look at fretlight guitars, very cheap and not bad to play.
Can show you any scale,chords etc. On the neck.get it with guitar pro for fretlight and you can do a lot .
I wouldn't use the guitar for gigs but to practice a very good tool.
 
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