Latency Compensation Measurement

Soundstorm said:
Hi, has this issue been addressed yet? Does going S/PDIF into a different interface solve the issue? I'm looking at ordering an FM3 very soon and was hoping to be able to use it as an interface so I can keep it as a minimal travel rig.
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Axe-FX III and FM9, yes it has been fixed. As for the FM3...check with tech support to learn the status of a fix. In the meantime, just use the manual adjustment workaround described above. If you want a minimal travel rig, that would be a better solution than adding an audio interface to your rig.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/latency-compensation-measurement.177851/#post-2166655
 
GlennO said:
Axe-FX III and FM9, yes it has been fixed. As for the FM3...check with tech support to learn the status of a fix. In the meantime, just use the manual adjustment workaround described above. If you want a minimal travel rig, that would be a better solution than adding an audio interface to your rig.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/latency-compensation-measurement.177851/#post-2166655
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Glenn thanks. So is this an issue across the board, or only for some users?
 
Soundstorm said:
Hi, has this issue been addressed yet? Does going S/PDIF into a different interface solve the issue? I'm looking at ordering an FM3 very soon and was hoping to be able to use it as an interface so I can keep it as a minimal travel rig.
Click to expand...
I don't think so- I had raised a ticket a few weeks ago as was general issues with usb but at the same time as raising - I started using usb 3 port which solved my issues and even even tracking was very close but my external audio interface is closer.
I need to re-raise my need to come up with test to prove it.
 
Soundstorm said:
Glenn thanks. So is this an issue across the board, or only for some users?
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AFAIK, it affects all FM3 owners, but don't quote me on that. I suspect not many people use an FM3 for recording, at least when compared to the Axe-FX, so it's not as hot an issue on the FM3 as it was on the Axe-FX.
 
I did an SPDIF vs. USB test with the FM3 and my PreSonus Quantum 2 interface.

I recorded a Pink Noise signal three times:
1. Through the instrument input of the Quantum 2 audio interface
2. Through the FM3 (only input & output blocks engaged) and into the Quantum 2 via SPDIF
3. Through the FM3 (only input & output blocks engaged) into the computer via USB audio (lowest buffer setting on the FM3)

1. and 2. cancelled each other out when I matched the volume and corrected 2. by 80 samples (1,67 milliseconds at 48 kHz). The value of 80 samples was reproducible when I repeated the test a couple of times.
But when I tried to get 1. and 3. to cancel each other out, I ran into a strange problem. Just correcting 3. by a certain amount of samples didn't work. Instead I got a weird phasing up and down noise even with the best possible setting. There seems to be a certain "drift" when using the FM3's USB audio.
 
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GlennO said:
AFAIK, it affects all FM3 owners, but don't quote me on that. I suspect not many people use an FM3 for recording, at least when compared to the Axe-FX, so it's not as hot an issue on the FM3 as it was on the Axe-FX.
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In my case you're right... I was using the FM3 usb but at that time there was:
  • limited output 3,4 (now it's possible to route the output 2, so this point is no longer an issue)
  • latency issue
  • glitching when using vst on other channels..

so I decided to run it trough SPDIF in an audio interface and let the FM3 be my 100% guitar studio rig
 
GrabtharsHammer said:
I did an SPDIF vs. USB test with the FM3 and my PreSonus Quantum 2 interface.

I recorded a Pink Noise signal three times:
1. Through the instrument input of the Quantum 2 audio interface
2. Through the FM3 (only input & output blocks engaged) and into the Quantum 2 via SPDIF
3. Through the FM3 (only input & output blocks engaged) into the computer via USB audio (lowest buffer setting on the FM3)

1. and 2. cancelled each other out when I matched the volume and corrected 2. by 80 samples (1,67 milliseconds at 48 kHz). The value of 80 samples was reproducible when I repeated the test a couple of times.
But when I tried to get 1. and 3. to cancel each other out, I ran into a strange problem. Just correcting 3. by a certain amount of samples didn't work. Instead I got a weird phasing up and down noise even with the best possible setting. There seems to be a certain "drift" when using the FM3's USB audio.
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interesting point.. but SPDIF: "this is the way"
Star Wars Disney Plus GIF by Disney+
 
GlennO said:
AFAIK, it affects all FM3 owners, but don't quote me on that. I suspect not many people use an FM3 for recording, at least when compared to the Axe-FX, so it's not as hot an issue on the FM3 as it was on the Axe-FX.
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On the other hand not all of can afford both devices and Fractal’s description for the FM3 states “4×4 USB audio capabilities allow for recording, playback, re-amping and more.” Are there other top tier modellers that have this problem. There have been multiple statements by Fractal as to the problem being addressed so surely it should be addressed by now.
 
So I've managed to do some tests with the offset issue with my set up

In reaper I created a click track and then reamped it through the the FM3 and measuring the samples the differences was approx 587 samples (12 milliseconds). I did the same thing with my other audio interface and it was 192 (4 milliseconds).
I generally use my other audio interface for recording as I don't notice the offset but I do with the FM3.

Does this seem acceptable?
 
Aivoryuk said:
So I've managed to do some tests with the offset issue with my set up

In reaper I created a click track and then reamped it through the the FM3 and measuring the samples the differences was approx 587 samples (12 milliseconds). I did the same thing with my other audio interface and it was 192 (4 milliseconds).
I generally use my other audio interface for recording as I don't notice the offset but I do with the FM3.

Does this seem acceptable?
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From another thread -
FractalAudio said:
Research has repeatedly shown that humans cannot detect latency of less than 5 ms.
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in which case anything greater would seem detectable and 12 milliseconds is well over that. So to my mind, acceptable no. Given how long this has been going on it’s hard to see why this is still an issue.
 
stdout said:
From another thread -

in which case anything greater would seem detectable and 12 milliseconds is well over that. So to my mind, acceptable no. Given how long this has been going on it’s hard to see why this is still an issue.
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I'll be raising a ticket regarding it.
I've just measured my Antelope Axino USB mic which has routing facility in it similar to to reamping. It measured 5 samples with no fx and 9 samples with fx inserted.
 
Following as well! I've been on quite a few threads on this forum discussing USB, Logic, and drift, and most have them have pointed to solutions other than admitting the hardware (FM3) has some issues. Reading today that the Axe III and FM9 have solved it, but FM3 still has issues was news to me. Someone else quoted the marketing claim that FM3 works seamlessly with USB recording/reamping...

I've been "ok" with the shortcomings, for the FM3 is an amazing piece of gear, and I just run the out audio analog into my interface, as also someone mentioned here "sometimes I get frustrated and lay the guitar down and walk away". With all of the firmware improvements, I recently checked back in on USB performance, and it seemed to have noticeably improved, but I still get drift and occasional noise after a time.

The comment that "most people don't record with the FM3" surprises me. I travel for a living, and the portability of the FM3 and it's abilities to do all it does in a compact package is everything to my life style.

All that said, I'd gladly go SPDIF if it solves these problems, and will try it soon.

My real point here is two things:

1) Super happy GlennO and company are passionate and invested in helping users on this forum try and figure it out! Happy I found and can follow this thread!
2) For as much time as I spend on this forum, this issue with the FM3 doesn't seem talked about and "upfront" enough IMO. For most of us "time isn't money" for we are hobbyists, but time and frustration is costly to the enjoyment of music, which is the driver for us all.

Thanks for the community, advice, and interaction to you all. Rock on!
 
I am glad that the bug is solved in FM9 and FX3 but I am very sad that FM3 still suffers from it. So many years, in fact!

I recently updated the FM3 firmware in hope that it is fixed and works as intended - but nope. When recording via USB the offset is still unacceptable for fluent work... :( I need to use another audio interface which is unconvenient.
 
Az_Spirit_Crusher said:
I am glad that the bug is solved in FM9 and FX3 but I am very sad that FM3 still suffers from it. So many years, in fact!

I recently updated the FM3 firmware in hope that it is fixed and works as intended - but nope. When recording via USB the offset is still unacceptable for fluent work... :( I need to use another audio interface which is unconvenient.
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Yes, I keep mentioning this on the forum. It seems to have been forgotten.
I love all the amp updates but can't see why this is not getting any attention.

@Admin M@ is there any fix for this? - I have reported this via support and the response was it was known problem but not currently being looked at.
 
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@Aivoryuk @Az_Spirit_Crusher Hey!

I'm new to this party as I just started learning all about recording and I'm trying to use my FM3 as an audio interface. Funny enough, I find the latency measurement report to the DAW to be bigger than the actual value so once I'm done recording and I playback, everything sounds earlier than expected.

Right now, my unit seems to report to Reaper 512 spls, ~13ms/13ms. If I change the USB buffering setting I don't see this change accordingly (which I would expect to happen) even after turning off/on the FM3 and restarting reaper.

I can help perform any required tests if you let me know how to help. We could also start a new thread if that would bring more visibility to the issue so it is handled sooner than later. @Admin M@
 
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