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Latching Switch into FC12?

kartman

Inspired
I have a spring loaded Mission pedal with a toe switch that I had connected to MFC for Wah block. Expression O/P was to a continuous pedal and the toe switch O/P was to... well, I honestly can't remember. :) Look, what I do remember is that it worked. :) I had the Wah control on the pedal and bypass on the switch.

Trying to recreate the same config on FC12. Pedal is no issue but I can't seem to get the switch to work correctly. I've tried different cables, setting up as a switch on switch 1/2 input, and setting up as a "latching" on a pedal input.

When I try to attach the source to the bypass and toggle the switch, the indicator movement is sporadic (often sticking somewhere between 0 and 100%). Sometimes, when I toggle the switch the indicator doesn't even move (missing the toggle action entirely). On the MFC, it would simply hop between 0% and 100% reliably.

Probably user error but has anybody else tried this?
 

unix-guy

Legend!
I have a spring loaded Mission pedal with a toe switch that I had connected to MFC for Wah block. Expression O/P was to a continuous pedal and the toe switch O/P was to... well, I honestly can't remember. :) Look, what I do remember is that it worked. :) I had the Wah control on the pedal and bypass on the switch.

Trying to recreate the same config on FC12. Pedal is no issue but I can't seem to get the switch to work correctly. I've tried different cables, setting up as a switch on switch 1/2 input, and setting up as a "latching" on a pedal input.

When I try to attach the source to the bypass and toggle the switch, the indicator movement is sporadic (often sticking somewhere between 0 and 100%). Sometimes, when I toggle the switch the indicator doesn't even move (missing the toggle action entirely). On the MFC, it would simply hop between 0% and 100% reliably.

Probably user error but has anybody else tried this?
Where are you seeing values of 0% and 100%? A Bypass function doesn't have a percentage... It's either active or bypassed.

Go to the Midi/Remote menu, change to the Bypass tab, scroll down to Wah, assign to FC SW# relative to the switch port.

CB92A2F7-7A96-4B1B-BE4F-7AB151A2372B.jpeg

Also, make sure you don't have auto engage enabled.
 

Admin M@

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
A Bypass function doesn't have a percentage... It's either active or bypassed.
I am assuming this is a modifier to the Bypass function in the block instead of doing it through the MIDI/Remote Menu.

@kartman I'd heck the switch or cable. I tested your report here with a latching switch and an FC-6 and had no problem. I tested all four switch ports of the FC multiple times.
 

kartman

Inspired
I am assuming this is a modifier to the Bypass function in the block instead of doing it through the MIDI/Remote Menu.

@kartman I'd heck the switch or cable. I tested your report here with a latching switch and an FC-6 and had no problem. I tested all four switch ports of the FC multiple times.
Yes - modifier on the Bypass function of within the block. The global bypass mapping is new to me but this makes sense. I tried this approach and it seems to be functioning as expected. This is good and new learning to boot!

One question: how do I invert the action? My pedal has an LED on it and I'd like to reverse the bypass state in the AF3. Right now, my LED is on and the Bypass is active. THis is one reason why I was using a modifier in the block as I'm able to invert the action in the UI. My reference to 0% and 100% is just an observation of the little yellow cursor in the modifier interface.

For the record: Switch is fully tested and tried different cables...
 

kartman

Inspired
Does it have a polarity switch? Sounds like it is treating open as on, but you want closed as on (which I would expect to be default).
No polarity on the pedal... I was hoping to accomplish on the FAS side. Typically, FAS thinks of everything! :)

For reference, I attaching a couple of images. While looking at the modifiers in AxeEdit, I refer to cursor in the lower left as 0% and upper right as 100%. When I toggle the latching switch several times with a ~5s between pushes, I expect to see the cursor reliably moving from 0% to 100% and back.

Currently, it works sometimes... completely misses the toggle sometimes... and as shown, it strangely lands midway sometimes. Again, if I'm doing something wrong, I want to understand and learn. At the moment, all I can say is that I'm trying to do what I had setup on MFC and I'm not seeing what I expected.

Not complaining! Just trying to get my head around what I'm observing.
Capture_2019-01-19_1.PNG Capture_2019-01-19_2.PNG Capture_2019-01-19_3.PNG
 

unix-guy

Legend!
Does it work consistently if you use the Bypass page instead of the modifier method?

Flaky behavior for sure... I would also suspect the cable or the switch is wonky.

Is it a single button switch or dual button? Are you using a TRS or TS cable?

If TRS, is it fully plugged in? I had an issue before with a certain set of TRS cables that would actually become slightly unplugged.
 

kartman

Inspired
Does it work consistently if you use the Bypass page instead of the modifier method?

Flaky behavior for sure... I would also suspect the cable or the switch is wonky.

Is it a single button switch or dual button? Are you using a TRS or TS cable?

If TRS, is it fully plugged in? I had an issue before with a certain set of TRS cables that would actually become slightly unplugged.
Seems to be 100% reliable via the Bypass Page method (except that my polarity is reversed from desired and not in sync with LED indicator on pedal). At this point, I'm not suspecting switch or cable as I've done enough messing around to convince myself that these are working. Still open to the idea but not leaning that way.

I've tried both TS and TRS and double checked the plugs are fully seated... Last thing I'm going to try is reconnecting to AF3 versus going remote off the FC12. This is not my preference but might yield more insight.

 

kartman

Inspired
Does it work consistently if you use the Bypass page instead of the modifier method
OK... FAS may need to give more insight...

Moved the pedal switch connection to the Pedal1 input on the AF3 via a TRS cable and the modifier method of monitoring source (yellow cursor) is 100% reliable. The cursor is moving from 0% (lower right) to 100% (upper left) of the graph on every switch toggle. Basically this is exactly what I was expecting from my MFC experience.

This pretty much rules out the cable and switch, I think.

Anybody have any further thoughts on why the same test would give different results when using 'remote' pedal input on FC12 versus onboard pedal input on AF3?
 

unix-guy

Legend!
Seems to be 100% reliable via the Bypass Page method (except that my polarity is reversed from desired and not in sync with LED indicator on pedal). At this point, I'm not suspecting switch or cable as I've done enough messing around to convince myself that these are working. Still open to the idea but not leaning that way.

I've tried both TS and TRS and double checked the plugs are fully seated... Last thing I'm going to try is reconnecting to AF3 versus going remote off the FC12. This is not my preference but might yield more insight.

Ok... Not a great solution, but you could easily change the switch polarity inside the pedal by rewiring the jack and then using the Bypass method.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
OK... FAS may need to give more insight...

Moved the pedal switch connection to the Pedal1 input on the AF3 via a TRS cable and the modifier method of monitoring source (yellow cursor) is 100% reliable. The cursor is moving from 0% (lower right) to 100% (upper left) of the graph on every switch toggle. Basically this is exactly what I was expecting from my MFC experience.

This pretty much rules out the cable and switch, I think.

Anybody have any further thoughts on why the same test would give different results when using 'remote' pedal input on FC12 versus onboard pedal input on AF3?
Did you try the other switch jack on the FC to see if both behave the same?
 

kartman

Inspired
Did you try the other switch jack on the FC to see if both behave the same?
Well, I tried the Pedal4 and Switch 1/2 inputs on the FC. Similar issue from both options whereas Pedal input on AF3 worked like a charm immediately. I guess I'll try Switch 3/4 later tonight but I'm not optimistic.

If nobody else chimes in, I'll contact FAS directly for some support/ideas.
 

Admin M@

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I just tested my Mission SP-1 here and the switch is working fine connected to either Switch jack of the FC-6 or 12.
I had to use a TRS-to-TRS cable or a TRS-to-dual-TS cable. It does not work with a normal guitar cable because of how the SP-1 is wired.

I'm not sure, by the way, that your testing has ruled out a bad switch or pedal wiring. Expression Pedal jacks may behave differently from switch jacks.
 

kartman

Inspired
I'm not sure, by the way, that your testing has ruled out a bad switch or pedal wiring. Expression Pedal jacks may behave differently from switch jacks.
OK... There seems to be some confusion here and it may be on my part. For the record, I've not ruled anything out. I've tried several cables (standard patch, TS and TRS) and used a multimeter to check the switch. Not ruling anything out. My SP-1 has an LED on the switch and between the LED and the multimeter (and operation on the my MFC before FC), I'm starting to look past my pedal and cables.

1) I've tried both Switch1/2 and Switch 3/4 on my FC and this appears to be working correctly using the Bypass menu functions BUT my polarity is reversed. I'm willing to look at rewiring the SP-1 but, as of right now, the block bypass is "working" flawlessly with the LED being opposite to my desired state. I want LED on = block active. As a suggestion, perhaps an "invert" option on the Bypass setting screen? For the record, this is a new menu to me and thanks for pointing me at it... love learning new stuff and the FAS products are onions! Layers/Layers/Layers...

2) Lastly, when I connect my switch output to the pedal (1-4) input of the FC12, I get the wonky response that I originally posted about. When I connect to the pedal input (1-2) of the AF3 unit, it works exactly like it did with my MFC. Same switch... same cable... same modifier setup... same block... Only difference is FC12 versus MFC versus AF3.

So, my question is simply why is one of these things not like the other.

Maybe I'm missing something but I think I've done a reasonable amount of leg work and invested enough time to not feel too badly for asking for some help. Bottom line is that my preferred solution is to skip the Bypass menu and use the pedal connection like I had done on MFC and, as far as I'm aware, this should be supported via FC12 as it works as expected when connecting direct to the back of my AxeFx3.
 
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