• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Last power conditioner question, I swear! (this year)

Cobrango

Power User
Hi,

So yada yada I've got a Furman PL-8C E and I'm wondering if the power conditioners of you (see what I did there) use them to power up your amps? I came over a thread somewhere stating that the tube amps don't need it and that the power conditioners might be limiting the something something for the tube amps, something like the power conditioner is lowering the "power headroom" or something because it's not able to provide the same amount of "oumph" in a single moment when the tube amp asks for it.

Basically I want to include my tube amps in the Furman power conditioning since basically everything else is running through it. And yes of course I have to calculate the watts and wattsnot so that I'm sure it can deliver the goods.

Seems kind of obvious to also run the tube amps through the power conditioner, when "it's sooo important" that everything else goes through it?

The amps in question are:

Vox ad120vt
Vox ad120vth w/ad412
Vox ac30cch w/V412bn
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
“I like to plug my amps into the 220v outlet for the clothes dryer at home. That silly 110v from most of my outlets doesn’t provide enough power headroom and limits the tone of my tube amps.”


If this absurd statement someone makes it around the Internet and gets restated as fact, you’ll all have heard it here first and when people state “ I read someone on the Internet said.....” you’ll know who that someone was lol

Essentially the digital equivalent of throwing a message in a bottle into the sea
 

t0aj15

Power User
Hi,

I've got a Furman PL-8C E and I'm wondering if you use them to power up your amps?I came over a thread somewhere stating that the tube amps don't need it and that the power conditioners might be limiting something for the tube amps, something like the power conditioner is lowering the "power headroom" or something because it's not able to provide the same amount of "oumph" in a single moment when the tube amp asks for it.
Basically I want to include my tube amps in the Furman power conditioning since basically everything else is running through it. And yes of course I have to calculate the watts and wattsnot so that I'm sure it can deliver the goods.
Seems kind of obvious to also run the tube amps through the power conditioner, when "it's sooo important" that everything else goes through it? The amps in question are:

Vox ad120vt
Vox ad120vth w/ad412
Vox ac30cch w/V412bn

Furman used to make a unit just for that situation, it's called the "Power Factor Pro", I've got one and I wouldn't use any tube power-amp without it.
They currently have only one unit with that "Power Factor" technology (and it ain't cheap) the Furman P-1800 PF R.
See it here: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/P1800PFR--furman-p-1800-pf-r
 

skunc

Experienced
Power consistency to the amp is paramount. You can use a variac to adjust and fine tune, especially if you have an older amp designed for 110. Your amp will sound different every night-or even every hour until this is locked in.
 

chris

Legend!
Power consistency to the amp is paramount. You can use a variac to adjust and fine tune, especially if you have an older amp designed for 110. Your amp will sound different every night-or even every hour until this is locked in.
I’m not directing this comment specifically at skunc or anyone else. Just commenting since it came up, and I’m just quoting for reference, mostly talking to the OP.

But is this consistency something actually needed for the level of performance at hand? A problem I see on Internet forums or the internet in general is someone says “I want the best sound, what do I buy?” Then the answers to the question ended up being the most expensive solutions - the question did say “best.” So someone new to playing suddenly thinks they need to spend $20,000 to go play a 2 hour gig a few times a month.

Thousands and thousands of guitarists play their power amps plugged in directly to the wall night after night without ever using a Furman or voltage regulator. Their tone is fine. Might it be changing slightly from venue to venue or night to night? Sure. But what degree of consistency is needed or what level of quality is needed/justified?

I’m not judging at all. I bring high value gear to my gigs, compared to the typical ~$300 average total gear cost of my fellow musicians. But my gear actually does sound better and I have more capability than the $200 acoustic with $99 multi fx pedal. But for the purposes of the gig, the system we play through and other factors, that cheap gear is perfectly acceptable and sounds “right” for the gig. Maybe 1 person out of hundreds during the night would tell the difference. So to many, *I* am the dumb one from bringing such expensive and extraneous gear.

I’m just trying to put things in perspective. Big bands with a reputation to hold and thousands of fans expecting a certain sound probably regulate power and everything else to have the consistent show $300+ ticket holders are expecting. The guy at the local bar who sees you every now and then probably isn’t expecting anything, in contrast.

Now if you do want that sort of consistency for yourself and you can afford it and take it to the gigs, heck yeah go for it. But I know someone who swears by bringing a furman p1800-ar $1200 voltage regulator for his ~$500 Marshall combo with boss pedals. He says he read that you “need” to have a voltage regulator or the gear will sound bad. Hey maybe he’s right and technically it’s better, but in the big picture, there’s no practical difference. (And maybe that’s up to opinion.)

It’s like when people ask do I need to use XLR or can I use 1/4” to connect my Axe and people say ohhhh you HAVE to use XLR or there’s gonna be noise. And seeing so many comments, the person develops a thought and convinced himself that he did hear “so much noise” with 1/4”. Yet he didn’t. He just read it on the internet. Then one day he tries 1/4” and wait... there’s no noise. It sounds the same. But the internet said!!!

So do you need it? That’s for you to try and judge. Again, just offering perspective and realization that so many don’t voltage regulate and it sounds and performs fine. There is always a better solution and always more gear to buy and bring.
 
Where I live I have very stable power. If I played out, or had not so great power I would look for a power conditioner with AVR (automatic voltage regulation). They keep the voltage nice, and consistent. Just make sure you get one big enough. I spec them out for work all the time, and most of the ones I replace were undersized, and fail because they can't keep up with the load. This is in a hospital telemetry monitoring network environment, so kind of important to have the good stuff. The biggest downside to AVR is you need either a big heavy battery, or an expensive bank of capacitors.

Tube amps in general are not susceptible to voltage spikes that can damage a lot of newer electronics so you don't really need much surge protection. The exception is the solid state circuitry for switching in some amps, and if there are other digital parts in the circuit like midi etc.
 

BBN

Fractal Fanatic
Where some of the confusion comes from is that SS Power Amps (that are rated for 20amp circuits) can be limited if you use a Power Conditioner (Furman) that is rated for 15amps.
I have been told by the support team at Crown Amps to never plug their amps into a power conditioner, and always plug directly into the wall.
Granted, this is for an iTech 4k/8k amp that is powering a monster PA, so different use case. But that is where some of the "don't use a power conditioner" mentality comes from.
For a Tube Amp, I don't know of any that draw even close to that. If you do find one...then keep that in mind.
At home (because that's the only place I use a tube amp), I run my amps through a Furman.
 

Cobrango

Power User
Where some of the confusion comes from is that SS Power Amps (that are rated for 20amp circuits) can be limited if you use a Power Conditioner (Furman) that is rated for 15amps.
I have been told by the support team at Crown Amps to never plug their amps into a power conditioner, and always plug directly into the wall.
Granted, this is for an iTech 4k/8k amp that is powering a monster PA, so different use case. But that is where some of the "don't use a power conditioner" mentality comes from.
For a Tube Amp, I don't know of any that draw even close to that. If you do find one...then keep that in mind.
At home (because that's the only place I use a tube amp), I run my amps through a Furman.

Thank you SO much BBN! That's exactly the kind of response I was looking for! awesome, I'll run my tube amps through my Furman PL-8C E then, it's rated max 10A but I guess it will work fine, and I'll ask Furman about this as well :)
 
Last edited:

BBN

Fractal Fanatic
Thank you SO much BBN! That's exactly the kind of response I was looking for! awesome, I'll run my tube amps through my Furman PL-8C E then, it's rated max 10A but I guess it will work fine, and I'll ask Furman about this as well :)
I don't know what amp you have but I think a 100watt head draws about 3amp...so you should be ok with that Furman you have.
 

Cobrango

Power User
I don't know what amp you have but I think a 100watt head draws about 3amp...so you should be ok with that Furman you have.

The amps in question are my Vox ad120vth, Vox ad120vt, Vox ac30cch.

also powered by my rack: JBL LSR308 MK II's, Korg Pitchblack pro tuner, Axe-fx II, American Audio DB Display MK II, Art Pro mpa II, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 mk II.

Gonna have to calculate this a bit, but I guess it will be fine.
 

BBN

Fractal Fanatic
The amps in question are my Vox ad120vth, Vox ad120vt, Vox ac30cch.

also powered by my rack: JBL LSR308 MK II's, Korg Pitchblack pro tuner, Axe-fx II, American Audio DB Display MK II, Art Pro mpa II, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 mk II.

Gonna have to calculate this a bit, but I guess it will be fine.

May take a little effort, but if you pull up the specs for each of your items, it will tell you what it will draw....then just do that math like you mentioned.
 
Top Bottom