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Implemented Larger Max Delay Time

Hello folks;

I'd like to ask for more delay time in all delay blocks.

Currently, the max time is 8 seconds. For us Looping artists, a max delay time of 30 seconds - or more - would be wonderful.

An example usage involving 30 seconds of delay time would be Fripp's dual delay looping setup, or David Torn's looping techniques.

Thank you,
Vittorio
 
The Looper block is great, but:
  1. There can only be one instance per preset
  2. It is deterministic in that one records, overdubs, and removes
The joy of configuring to delays as such:

[Feedback Return] => [Delay 1] => [Delay 2] => [Feedback Send]

Is that it becomes an organic looping machine, much like Robert Fripp's dual Revox setup and his Soundscapes.

Go ahead and try it (and attach a Volume block to the input of [Delay 1]). Play three notes sequentially, and then sit back and listen. You'll slowly hear the notes merge in and out of each other, depending on the delay length. It's a beautiful and inspiring exercise.
 

Valhalla

Member
Reviving an old thread. This was the closest topic on longer delay time I could find after doing a search.
I think it's important to make a distinction between sample-based looping and delay-based 'looping'.
The Looper block is sample-based. Unless 'Stack' is on, the loop doesn't decay with each repeat. In a way it's a static loop.
With delay-based 'looping', a long delay time is pre-set and feedback/decay is set high. The 'loop' is continuously evolving as you play.
The Boss DD-20 is my current go-to for this. It has up to 23 secs of delay time, so I can set up an e.g. 12-second delay with feedback at say 3 o'clock, lay down a few layers, then bypass the input and play lead improv. The feedback allows the 'loop' to repeat for several minutes w/o decay (or barely detectable).
Then, re-engage to add more layers, change mode, mood, tone....
I think a lot of the ambient/soundscape musicians do it this way. Of course, they're using 2U Eventide units which have very long delay times.
I'm hoping to acquire an Eventide Orville if I can find one soon. An H8000FW will only be possible if I hit the lotto.
So the wish would be, a significantly longer delay time than 8 secs. Like 30 secs, with long feedback....
@VittorioAngelo - Fripp does his soundscapes on an 8000 with quad 'loops'. I'd be over the moon with dual.
FrippLoops.jpg
 

2112

Fractal Fanatic
You can chain multiple long delays together and then use the feedback send/return blocks to create a sound on sound/looping delay. Super fun.

Of course a longer maximum delay time, or a "looping delay" type or block that bakes all of this in would be convenient.
 

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Valhalla

Member
Hey Leon, appreciate you chiming in on the subject. I've learned a lot from your vids, especially the ambient one you made a few months back.
Full disclosure, I'm still with the 2XL+, but if the 3 had this capability I'd go for it.
I will try out your suggestion. Thanks, and happy Solstice.
 

Mincer

Inspired
The Looper block is great, but:
  1. There can only be one instance per preset
  2. It is deterministic in that one records, overdubs, and removes
The joy of configuring to delays as such:

[Feedback Return] => [Delay 1] => [Delay 2] => [Feedback Send]

Is that it becomes an organic looping machine, much like Robert Fripp's dual Revox setup and his Soundscapes.

Go ahead and try it (and attach a Volume block to the input of [Delay 1]). Play three notes sequentially, and then sit back and listen. You'll slowly hear the notes merge in and out of each other, depending on the delay length. It's a beautiful and inspiring exercise.
I am trying to envision how this looks. While this post is pretty old (and I have an FM3), I'd love to experiment with something like this.
 
Hello @Mincer;

If you take a look at 2112's post from Jun 19, 2020 (above), he kindly provided a picture of how to setup such a patch.

I don't have an FM3, so I hope all requisite blocks are provided by the FM3. All you need is (in order as illustrated by 2112):
  1. A Return block
  2. One, or preferably more, delay block(s)
  3. A Send block
There is another gentleman who haunts these halls, @simeon, who is expert at creating ambient/looping textures with the AxeFx. I would highly suggest that you purchase his preset pack and scour this forum for his posts regarding this frippertronic style looping. He will lead you to the green, looping pastures that you seek.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
16 seconds is a decent amount of loop time (two delay blocks in series). it's about the longest time i can comfortably loop and still get a sense of the loop boundary. i've used 20 seconds in the past and it's really difficult to get a feel for the ebb and flow of it.
the eventide eclipse will do 20 seconds, but that's in mono. it'll do 10 seconds in stereo, but for that you could buy two TC Electronic D2's for a fraction of the cost and have that "tape style" looping going on. having said that though, there are probably delay pedals around now that will do 10 seconds or more in stereo.
 

Mincer

Inspired
unfortunately, they're axe fx III only, but thank you for the plug! @Mincer if you need any help, pm me
I appreciate the help! I am coming to the FM3 from an AX8 and 2 Echoplex Digital Pros, which I've been using for looping since the early 90s. I am looking at ways to incorporate delay-style looping (with exp pedal control over feedback which is very important).
 

simeon

Axe-Master
I appreciate the help! I am coming to the FM3 from an AX8 and 2 Echoplex Digital Pros, which I've been using for looping since the early 90s. I am looking at ways to incorporate delay-style looping (with exp pedal control over feedback which is very important).

ah, the venerable echoplex. :)
 

Valhalla

Member
... comfortably loop and still get a sense of the loop boundary.
This is still based on sampling, not delay-based "looping". That's not what delay-based 'loop' players are after.
There are samples and there are echos. We want the echos to be spaced much, much further apart and not fade out for a long, long time.
I hope the image below looks okay. It is a pic of Robert Fripp's 2 H8000s on their Loop programs, which are really, really long echos, for his soundscapes.
The top unit has loops of 56 sec, 35 sec and 90 secs.
The bottom unit has loops of 49 sec, 35 sec and 84 secs.
I don't think Fripp was wanting to get a sense of the loop boundary. These are programmed for the element of surprise.
He then feeds the loops into their own respective H3500 for modulation based on the Eventide "Canyon" programs.
I hope Fractal considers this for the Axe IV. Even 30 secs delay, not looper, time would be very good. Then to run two long delay blocks in parallel would be just peachy.
Strictly speaking about delay-based 'looping', there is nothing on the market between the Boss DD-20 at 23 secs and an H8000. Millions of cheap sampler pedals out there though.
FrippsLoopsH8000_better.jpg
 

simeon

Axe-Master
it's not based on sampling. i'm still referring to "tape" style delay looping...just with shorter times than you're referring to.
i doubt we'll get longer delay times. i've asked already. the max delay time on the axe fx II was 8 seconds. if cliff wanted to make it longer for the axe fx III, he could have done so, but maybe in the axe IV....who knows.
currently the only way to do it is to chain delay blocks together, or use outboard gear. one way to do that is to use a laptop and run something like ableton and have it host something like augustus loop, which will give you as long a loop as you need. you only requite one usb cable to hook the laptop up to the axe. actually much cheaper to do than buying multiple eventides.
if you chain 4 delay blocks together, you can get 32 seconds (in stereo), which isn't bad and you still have the multidelay blocks as well, which can give you another 16 secs on top of that.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
Btw, the looper has 5 minutes of time. Leave it in overdub with feedback less than 100% and you have a massively long delay. It does require two button presses, but that’s trivial, imo
 

Mincer

Inspired
Strictly speaking about delay-based 'looping', there is nothing on the market between the Boss DD-20 at 23 secs and an H8000. Millions of cheap sampler pedals out there though.

Thanks for those pics. I knew his loops were long, but not like that. The closest thing to that would be 6 EDPs to run those times in stereo. I use a pair of them for delay-based looping as there are no real modern loop pedals with a feedback control. Many just apply feedback in overdub mode, but that isn't the same thing.
 

Valhalla

Member
Btw, the looper has 5 minutes of time. Leave it in overdub with feedback less than 100% and you have a massively long delay. It does require two button presses, but that’s trivial, imo
Interesting. And 120 secs on the FM3, not bad. With Record 2nd Press set on Overdub that's one less button press.
Question: Is it possible to control the looper's Overdub Level with an expression pedal via CC#s? That would be pretty great, because personally with loopers the challenge is exiting gracefully :).
 

simeon

Axe-Master
Is it possible to control the looper's Overdub Level with an expression pedal via CC#s?

yes

look at the config page - all the parameters with yellow circles next to them are controllable via internal or external modofoers

With Record 2nd Press set on Overdub that's one less button press.

well it's still two button presses - one to go into record and one to go into overdub

i don't know if you've checked this, but the looper can only be controlled by one of fractals' footswitches. the controls aren't mappable to midi cc commands
 
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