Large-but-Precise Question re: FC-12 vs. RJM MMGT

FAS link! Not having to hassle with a midi cable and power supply is very nice. The xlr cables seem way more robust then midi cables too.

Other than that, not having to program two separate units is nice.

The integration is probably number one

I'm withholding judgement but I suspect the scribble strips are too small on the FC then what would have been ideal.
 
dpeterson said:
One thing to keep in mind too is that once the III is done and the next thing comes along or you move to some other platform, the RJM can and most likely will work with it. The FC is stuck to III, like the old foot controller now does not work with current hardware.
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An observation. Since the FC's are NEW thing for fractal no one (except maybe Cliff) can say that they will NOT be compatible with whatever comes next AXeFX wise. Just sayin..................
 
Hooligan said:
Here’s what I really want to know: Which one is more resistant to beer?
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Important question. My switch to Axe-FX started with a pitcher of beer being dumped on my pedal board full of very expensive gear at a gig -- a verellen meatsmoke preamp ($700), a strymon deco ($300), strymon bigsky ($500), myco three ($450) and some other cheaper stomps... all destroyed. Thankfully all but Myco repaired everything FOR FREE.
 
negativefx said:
Important question. My switch to Axe-FX started with a pitcher of beer being dumped on my pedal board full of very expensive gear at a gig -- a verellen meatsmoke preamp ($700), a strymon deco ($300), strymon bigsky ($500), myco three ($450) and some other cheaper stomps... all destroyed. Thankfully all but Myco repaired everything FOR FREE.
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Two pieces of good news here:

1) Fractal floor gear has proven itself to be very rugged and resistant to all sorts of stuff.

2) Even the FC-12 only costs 1/3 of the price of your pedalboard. :)
 
Rex said:
Two pieces of good news here:

1) Fractal floor gear has proven itself to be very rugged and resistant to all sorts of stuff.

2) Even the FC-12 only costs 1/3 of the price of your pedalboard. :)
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Exactly! MFC has been good to me. I use poster putty to plug the open jacks and I also wrap it around the switch nuts and threading. Pretty beerproof now. :)

Edit: from the screenshots, looks like I'll be doing the same putty technique on the FC
 
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hippietim said:
The ones on the MMGT do look bigger. I'm 53 and use reading glasses these days for the computer but I have no trouble with the FC scribble strips.
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Hello Tim,

Can you post some videos of the FC12? Layouts? Scribble Strips? ( I am assuming that you already have your FC, as you state that you have no trouble with FC strips)
 
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I have an RJM MM/GT 22. Very few people in the world have an FC and it seems those who do are not on the forum, so we have no real practical insights. I have read the FC manual several times.

Some good considerations have been raised. I have an MM/GT 22 I can say there is some setup and it takes some work to get everything just right. Especially if you have a special or corner case you want to implement. The MM/GT can support some really crazy corner cases. The MM/GT needs to be synced with the Axe downloading presets and scene names. This information is stored on the MM/GT. There is some capability to live query information from the Axe. It can also reflect effect statuses. The live query stuff has a little lag to it.

Again, my impressions of the FC are solely from reading the manual.
  • I think it is a safe and fair statement to say that the FC will be more “plug and play”.
  • I suspect that the performance of things like live querying Preset and Scene names will have lower latency, possibly significantly less.
  • I also suspect that the ability of the Axe and FC to reflect one another’s state will probably be very rich and deep
  • Based on the parameters available on the FC vs MM/GT, I think the MM/GT has more options which I suspect will translate to more flexibility, but I interpret that much of that flexibility is there specifically to support corner cases. Will everyone need all of that flexibility? Will a more focused, but very capable controller be sufficient for most players? We are about to find out.
  • The client/server architecture of the FC with the Axe having all of the configuration and smarts is interesting. I think there will be pluses and minuses, the net result remains to be seen. The MM/GT though has the inverse of this problem. The storage of configuration on the MM/GT also has its pluses and minuses. Certain changes to the Axe requires re-syncing of the Axe and MM/GT.
  • Both units support MIDI commands when switches are tapped/held. The MM/GT is very strong in this area. The FC supports similar functionality but looks to be have limitations when compared to the MM. Could be wrong here, this is the impression I have from the manual.
I think both foot controllers are world class. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. IMO the price point and capabilities of the MM/GT have made it as a best of class general purpose MIDI controller that is accessible to a subset of players who have very complex MIDI rigs, very stringent demands for their controller, and the financials to afford one.

The FC seems poised to bring an immersive level of control to the masses of Axe FX users that is more tightly integrated at a more accessible price.
 
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hippietim said:
One thing I think is worth pointing out is that the FC scribble strips do not change colors (other than reverse). The color changing happens with the LED rings around the swtiches. To me, this is a good thing because I find the text less legible with different color backgrounds. I used to have a Liquid Foot controller with the same sort of colored scribble strips as the RJM and I would have much rather had stable text background colors with the rings around the LEDs.
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The RJM’s ‘on/off’ colors are decided by the user.
 
It’s important to remember when comparing functions between the MMGT and FC that most of the functionality of the FC lies in the Axe Fx III, whereas the MMGT processing is contained within the foot controller itself. So, as @Capt Nasty indicated, it’s best to recognize one as the most capable stand-alone option and the other as the most native-integration capable. In essence, one is a stand alone computer and one is a workstation.

In the end, you’ll end up choosing by what they can do in combination, based on your needs. I believe the majority will be very happy with the FCs. I’ll likely end up with both. I expect the MMGT will remain my performing choice, as I have it set up to suit what I do very well. It’s great to have so many options!
 
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I agree with @Rick in that I will ultimately end up with an FC in addition to my GT/MM 22. Initially I will run them in parallel to get a side by side feel. After a while I will make a decision on what will stay and what will go. It is a very real possibility I could decide to run both in parallel.:D

If I were to get rid of one or the other, my son will probably be getting a sweetheart deal on whichever I decide to unload.
 
Just when the FC is becoming available, I'm starting to look more seriously at the MMGT. I'm starting to integrate a guitar synth into my live setup, and my needs got much more complex. Basically I want to use my GR55 to trigger synth sounds on a Roland Integra 7 synth, so I would like to be able to hit a button that will change scenes on my Axe-FX III, while simultaneously sending a MSB/LSB bank change and pick 6 presets on channels 1 thru 6 on the Integra 7. I've been playing with the editor prior to purchase and it looks like I can do it by basically treating it like 7 total devices. One for Axe FX, and one for each channel of the Integra 7.

So, before I just pull the trigger, anyone with the MMGT able to chime in and let me know if that sounds feasible?
 
I own the MM/GT 22. Based on the information you provided this is feasible. It will not be a plug and play integration. Will require some setup on your part, but yes you can do that.
 
Capt Nasty said:
I own the MM/GT 22. Based on the information you provided this is feasible. It will not be a plug and play integration. Will require some setup on your part, but yes you can do that.
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I found you can install the editor and play around. After skimming the manual and playing with the editor I see the basics.

It looks like the AXE-FX III stuff will be easy. For the other stuff I just need to set up additional actions on the scenes. I need to send a CC to each of the six channels to select the MSB, another to select the LSB, and the PC to select the preset. That's basically 18 actions for most scenes. Then use copy and paste and edit the values as needed

I went ahead and ordered the 22. I have a voicelive that i could probably also manipulate off of that controller, so that seems better than having 3 devices at my feet, plus expression pedals.
 
Genghis said:
I found you can install the editor and play around. After skimming the manual and playing with the editor I see the basics.

It looks like the AXE-FX III stuff will be easy. For the other stuff I just need to set up additional actions on the scenes. I need to send a CC to each of the six channels to select the MSB, another to select the LSB, and the PC to select the preset. That's basically 18 actions for most scenes. Then use copy and paste and edit the values as needed

I went ahead and ordered the 22. I have a voicelive that i could probably also manipulate off of that controller, so that seems better than having 3 devices at my feet, plus expression pedals.
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The manual you should be skimming is the one for the Integra 7. Our keyboard player uses one of those. I have come very close to pulling the trigger on an Integra 7 a few times. So I’ve read through the manual a bit.

You should be able to do everything you want with 2 messages for the Integra 7 if you organize things using Studio Sets. It’s still bank select plus program change but it’s just for switching studio sets. This has the additional advantage of being able to change the tones you want to use without having to edit every preset on the Axe or RJM since the studio set will remain the same. Another big bonus with this approach is by using up to 16 parts and note range limits, you can layer sounds on each string and/or split each string along the fretboard. For instance, you could have the high E play a piano for all notes but add an organ from the 12th fret up. Or you could have all strings trigger two different organs each panned separately.

Of course, now I want to check used prices for one of these again. Thanks a lot. :)
 
I've used the studio sets, but there is a lag when they load. This method allows you to call the individual paches and is quite a bit faster.

I found mine used. Lol. The only thing I didn't find used was the mastermind. Oh well. You ooly live once and it looks like the most complete setup, just takes time to set up.
 
@hippietim I just wanted to let you know that I fixed the issue I was having with using the Studio Sets and I love this Integra even more now. The FC12 will work fine and I can change sounds when I change scenes, so I'll be stoked with this. I got my invite for the FC and ordered today. I ended up apologetically cancelling the order on the Mastermind, but told him if I wasn't totally satisfied with the FC I'd be in touch at a later date.

Issue I was having is that I would get hanging notes if I tried to load a different Studio Set when changing scenes. I thought it was just the nature of the slight lag when changing the whole Studio Set at once, but suspected that if I picked up a MIDI merger to properly combine the Program Changes I was sending to the Integra 7 from my Axe-FX III along with the note information that the GR 55 was sending. That cleared up the issue. Now, even though there is a load progress message when you load another Studio Set during a scene change, the sound loads quicker than the message and I haven't had an issue with notes hanging since I added the MIDI merger box.

Of course, routing it into Input 2 of the AFX III really makes this thing scream. I've been working with the effects, and in particular those new comb filters that were added not too long ago. Get those set with just the right modulation and you can get a lot more mileage out of those pads without even really having to change presets on the song.

Sorry for kicking in the GAS on this, but wanted to follow up in case you or anyone else reading this were thinking of trying something like this. Having a separate box to merge the MIDI signals cleaned things up nicely.
 
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