Lag on the AX8 when switching presets.

If you want to stick with Fractal, the only practical solution for zero delay is to use two or more units at the same time.

Expensive, but gets you the quality and no latency.
 
If you want to stick with Fractal, the only practical solution for zero delay is to use two or more units at the same time.

Expensive, but gets you the quality and no latency.

Or, get an AxeFX + MFC. Two amp switching with no pops/dropouts.

My pre-Fractal rig was two tube amps with a Radial JX-2 in front of it. Clean switching, but it took me longer than 20mS to tap-dance with my FX pedals.
 
Hey Baba! I guess the first question to ask is why are you looking at changing your rig if your current rig fits your needs and provides the sound and feel you want? G.A.S? Or is there something missing that you're trying to fill? Maybe trying to reduce the rig or go direct and leave the amp at home etc...? The answers to these questions may answer your question as to why move to the AX8. If there's a compelling reason to do so, maybe you adjust a bit. If there's no reason to change, don't change. If you want quality amp modeling without any audio gap when changing presets and you are willing to add a controller and other outboard effects (if needed), Austin presented an option.

It's a good thing to have choices these days. Not every piece of gear will work for everyone. Good luck in your quest!

My interest in the AX8 came before I built my current rig. Seeing as top notch sound quality came down to this price level and form factor, it was kind of a no-brainer.

I play every weekend, so, it's not the sort of thing that was "waiting for", more like, " meh, the price is right, I'm on the waiting list, i'll compare it to what I have and weigh the pros/cons, and see if it's something I want to use" kind of thing. Before my current (separate component direct pedal board) rig, I was using a Digitech GSP1101, and have been used to non-dropout performance with that, and pretty much every other rig I've ever decided to play on. There ARE units out there that have a dropout, it bothers me enough, and I've had the choice, so I've avoided them.

Again, I understand WHY this happens with a unit with the AX8's level of processing, it's just a trade off that I have the luxury, at the moment and in the past, of not having to deal with, that's all. I'm not saying I'm never going to own one, the dropout thing definitely gives me pause though.

I DO think though, from a philosophical standpoint, to offer SO much, with SO many models, it's a bit strange to limit yourself to just using 2 models in an X/Y mode, with drive pedals, to get around this and have (virtually) 4 "different" sounds. If you're going to do that, you might as well use a MUCH simpler system (like what I have now) with less processing. You can accomplish that very easily without spending this kind of money. Sound quality will be subjective, obviously.
 
I hate to be the guy to drag this post back up, but... Had my first gig with the AX8 last night and the audio gap when X/Y amp switching was VERY audible live with the band. I need to find a solution for it, hoping someone has come up with a workable solution since this came up last...

I use the Recto Red 2 in my metal presets, with a tube screamer in front of it. I need to be able to switch between clean/dirty as seamless as possible. Most of our songs that have clean jump immediate to dirty, I'm the only guitar player, and I'm usually doing something noticeable (like a lead part) before the dirt kicks in.

I tried to make a "clean" version of the mesa with super low gain, and have the scenes switch the gain and preset level. The scene didn't seem to grab those parameters, so that didn't work. Even if it did, the tone really wasn't that great trying to get clean from that amp (imagine that).

I don't really believe I will be able to duplicate this Mesa tone using a clean amp with a drive pedal in front of it... So I'm hesitant to spend a lot of time on it. Has anyone got a preset for a nice metal clean to a Mesa style dirty using only a drive pedal on/off?

I haven't tried switching presets yet, but I believe it will be the same (if not worse) as X/Y switching the amp block.

We can't run two amp blocks, so I can't do any type of fade between the 2 (seems people with the Axe FXII do it this way).

Another idea I haven't tried yet is to get the CPU usage as low as humanly possible, bare bones, and see if the X/Y switch happens quicker...

In other news, my tone was amazing and probably the best I've ever sounded live (if you can forgive my guitar dropping completely in/out before every chorus lol).
 
I don't have an AX8, but I'm curious if you were trying to use scene controllers to switch the Recto Red from clean to dirt. I'd probably go that route if you haven't. You could possibly use a slightly different version of the recto to get a cleaner sound and use a drive in combination with the scene controller (for the amp) if you haven't tried it.

Just offering ideas...
 
I hate to be the guy to drag this post back up, but... Had my first gig with the AX8 last night and the audio gap when X/Y amp switching was VERY audible live with the band. I need to find a solution for it, hoping someone has come up with a workable solution since this came up last...

I use the Recto Red 2 in my metal presets, with a tube screamer in front of it. I need to be able to switch between clean/dirty as seamless as possible. Most of our songs that have clean jump immediate to dirty, I'm the only guitar player, and I'm usually doing something noticeable (like a lead part) before the dirt kicks in.

I tried to make a "clean" version of the mesa with super low gain, and have the scenes switch the gain and preset level. The scene didn't seem to grab those parameters, so that didn't work. Even if it did, the tone really wasn't that great trying to get clean from that amp (imagine that).

I don't really believe I will be able to duplicate this Mesa tone using a clean amp with a drive pedal in front of it... So I'm hesitant to spend a lot of time on it. Has anyone got a preset for a nice metal clean to a Mesa style dirty using only a drive pedal on/off?

I haven't tried switching presets yet, but I believe it will be the same (if not worse) as X/Y switching the amp block.

We can't run two amp blocks, so I can't do any type of fade between the 2 (seems people with the Axe FXII do it this way).

Another idea I haven't tried yet is to get the CPU usage as low as humanly possible, bare bones, and see if the X/Y switch happens quicker...

In other news, my tone was amazing and probably the best I've ever sounded live (if you can forgive my guitar dropping completely in/out before every chorus lol).

There is no solution on the AX8 except using a clean amp and then using a drive pedal for hi gain. So you'll either need to do that or use another device; either something with seamless switching like the Amplifire or something that supports having 2 amp instances like the Fractal rack units or the Helix. I did some recordings that are linked to earlier in this thread that show the gaps when switching presets and switching amp X/Y's. Nothing has changed since then. You mentioned using scene controllers which is another approach, but there aren't really enough parameters to get a good clean tone from a high gain amp that way since you can't affect most tonal parameters.
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Austin
 
I don't have an AX8, but I'm curious if you were trying to use scene controllers to switch the Recto Red from clean to dirt. I'd probably go that route if you haven't. You could possibly use a slightly different version of the recto to get a cleaner sound and use a drive in combination with the scene controller (for the amp) if you haven't tried it.

Just offering ideas...

Yeah my scene change is switching the X/Y state.

I'm wondering if my X/Y are both Recto Red, if doing the switch still has the gap. I haven't tried that yet. But again, even if it doesn't, it's gonna be hard to get a good clean tone with that amp, but might be workable if I get creative.
 
Yeah my scene change is switching the X/Y state.

I'm wondering if my X/Y are both Recto Red, if doing the switch still has the gap. I haven't tried that yet. But again, even if it doesn't, it's gonna be hard to get a good clean tone with that amp, but might be workable if I get creative.

Yes, you'll still have a gap. I have a preset that uses a Double Verb in the X and Y slots. The X is set for clean and the Y is set for dirty. When switching you get the usual gap.
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Austin
 
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Yeah my scene change is switching the X/Y state.

I'm wondering if my X/Y are both Recto Red, if doing the switch still has the gap. I haven't tried that yet. But again, even if it doesn't, it's gonna be hard to get a good clean tone with that amp, but might be workable if I get creative.
yes it will. changing from X to Y in the amp block regardless of the settings requires the audio gap so there aren't loud pops instead.

i'm curious to try something... would you send me your preset in this private upload so i can experiment with Scene Controllers and creating a clean sound? https://www.dropbox.com/request/k1KMjyGjbYUSEF24pskj
 
So you'll either need to do that or use another device; either something with seamless switching like the Amplifire or something that supports having 2 amp instances like the Fractal rack units or the Helix
The AmpliFIRE is seamless. Also, the Kemper has a Rig Cross Fade setting: "The Profiler performs a cross fade between the previous and actual rig instead, producing a seamless and smooth transition. This cross fade time can be adjusted in a wide range. It affects both Browse and Performance Mode."

As Cliff noted elsewhere, neither of those units are doing the complicated routing the FAS products are doing, so it's not realistic to expect the AX8 to be seamless.
 
The AmpliFIRE is seamless. Also, the Kemper has a Rig Cross Fade setting: "The Profiler performs a cross fade between the previous and actual rig instead, producing a seamless and smooth transition. This cross fade time can be adjusted in a wide range. It affects both Browse and Performance Mode."

As Cliff noted elsewhere, neither of those units are doing the complicated routing the FAS products are doing, so it's not realistic to expect the AX8 to be seamless.

Switching Amp X/Y actually does a little bit of a fade (I could see it in my wave forms when I did my recording tests), but there is still a gap. Definitely not a crossfade. The Helix doesn't fade cleanly between presets either; it takes about the same time as the AX8 for similar reasons. But due to the way their system is set up and because their amp/cab models use so much less processing power, you are able to put two amps and cabs in a preset and seamlessly swap between them. It's just something that needs to be worked around as best as you can and otherwise accepted IMO. If it was something that could be dealt with while still giving people all the other features they offer, I'm sure all these companies would have done it. It's definitely not something I would expect to somehow be erased by a future firmware upgrade.
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Austin
 
yes it will. changing from X to Y in the amp block regardless of the settings requires the audio gap so there aren't loud pops instead.

i'm curious to try something... would you send me your preset in this private upload so i can experiment with Scene Controllers and creating a clean sound? https://www.dropbox.com/request/k1KMjyGjbYUSEF24pskj
Yes, I'll try and hook it up to the PC and save it as soon as I can :) Appreciate any help!
 
But due to the way their system is set up and because their amp/cab models use so much less processing power, you are able to put two amps and cabs in a preset and seamlessly swap between them. It's just something that needs to be worked around as best as you can and otherwise accepted IMO.
You're referring to the Helix? I've never use one of those, but I do know the AmpliFIRE is seamless and the Kemper can preload and crossfade between two presets. Of course the AmpliFIRE is way way way simpler than anything FAS makes, but I get the feeling the Kemper has lots of CPU waiting in the wings.
 
Yeah my scene change is switching the X/Y state.

I'm wondering if my X/Y are both Recto Red, if doing the switch still has the gap. I haven't tried that yet. But again, even if it doesn't, it's gonna be hard to get a good clean tone with that amp, but might be workable if I get creative.

i'm working on your preset right now on my new live stream platform. the switching is actually faster using 2 presets vs switching XY in the same preset. i duplicated your preset and made each different sound Scene 1 respectively, and the switching was much faster, still a small gap as expected.

when i got the preset under about 75% CPU, the XY Amp switching was much faster, and around 70 or below was even faster. but that speed basically matched the 2 separate presets at their high CPU usage.
 
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Just a few thoughts.

Afaik, there are currently two ways the button switches work:
1. It makes changes once you press AND RELEASE the switch.
2. It makes changes when you just press the switch.

Maybe it is possible to achieve lower switch latency using the 2nd switching option?


Also, a wild idea - maybe it is possible to develop this: when you PRESS AND HOLD the switch, AX8 prepares something in background (your current preset and sound still stay intact) to make the preset change more seamless? Once you RELEASE the switch, system finalizes the preset change and switches to it with shorter lag.
 
You're referring to the Helix? I've never use one of those, but I do know the AmpliFIRE is seamless and the Kemper can preload and crossfade between two presets. Of course the AmpliFIRE is way way way simpler than anything FAS makes, but I get the feeling the Kemper has lots of CPU waiting in the wings.

Yes, the Helix.
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Austin
 
Just a few thoughts.

Afaik, there are currently two ways the button switches work:
1. It makes changes once you press AND RELEASE the switch.
2. It makes changes when you just press the switch.

Maybe it is possible to achieve lower switch latency using the 2nd switching option?
...

This might make it seem faster, but the audio dropout would be the same.
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Austin
 
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