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Lag between scenes, anyone?

trixdropd

Inspired
as mentioned, certain blocks will cause gaps when changing the channels. amp block and cab block are two.
 
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JoKeR III

Inspired
There is a tendency on this board to dismiss any issue someone has or characterize it as unimportant. If that’s how you feel, why comment?
Nothing is being dismissed nor is anyone saying it's not important. As @chris said, it's been discussed several times and in those discussions people have offered solutions to help minimize and given ideas they use in order to work with it.

Any "frustration" could be from the fact that an in some discussions Fractal has explained why it is there and why it is necessary. Since it's something that's not going to be "fixed" and if you're not looking for ideas of how to work with it, why continue discussing it?
 

Ghost_of_Cain

Inspired
.... in some discussions Fractal has explained why it is there and why it is necessary. Since it's something that's not going to be "fixed" and if you're not looking for ideas of how to work with it, why continue discussing it?
By the way. I don't want to start another discussion - as indeed we've discussed it hundred times - but:

1. Fractal has explained why the gap is there and why it is necessary, but unfortunately, at some point in the time, FAS' approach on "silent switching" was not ideal. The gap was too long. Heck, POD HD500 and GLAB GSC MIDI switcher did that far more "seamlessly". Somehow, those milliseconds were less distracting, maybe fade-in / fade-out times were a bit different, I don't know - it just worked. Hope this is all gone with channels now (unfortunately, I will be able to check for myself only when FM3s will be available in EU :)

2. I'm tired of "come on guys, real amps have gaps too!" approach. I_DON'T_USE_AMPS_THAT_DO_NOT_SWITCH_SEAMLESSLY, for God's sake. EVH 5150 III 50W is a good example. Anyone hear any audio gap there, when switched from dedicated FS? :) I know, not all amps switch perfectly. I just avoid those.
 

chris

Legend!
By the way. I don't want to start another discussion - as indeed we've discussed it hundred times - but:

1. Fractal has explained why the gap is there and why it is necessary, but unfortunately, at some point in the time, FAS' approach on "silent switching" was not ideal. The gap was too long. Heck, POD HD500 and GLAB GSC MIDI switcher did that far more "seamlessly". Somehow, those milliseconds were less distracting, maybe fade-in / fade-out times were a bit different, I don't know - it just worked. Hope this is all gone with channels now (unfortunately, I will be able to check for myself only when FM3s will be available in EU :)

2. I'm tired of "come on guys, real amps have gaps too!" approach. I_DON'T_USE_AMPS_THAT_DO_NOT_SWITCH_SEAMLESSLY, for God's sake. EVH 5150 III 50W is a good example. Anyone hear any audio gap there, when switched from dedicated FS? :) I know, not all amps switch perfectly. I just avoid those.
Not all gear is doing the same amount of work at the time of switching. A cheaper unit can switch faster when it’s not doing close to the amount of processes as something better.

People keep bringing up real amps that have a gap because many think amps never ever do. Some do.
 

AlbertA

Forum Addict
By the way. I don't want to start another discussion - as indeed we've discussed it hundred times - but:

1. Fractal has explained why the gap is there and why it is necessary, but unfortunately, at some point in the time, FAS' approach on "silent switching" was not ideal. The gap was too long. Heck, POD HD500 and GLAB GSC MIDI switcher did that far more "seamlessly". Somehow, those milliseconds were less distracting, maybe fade-in / fade-out times were a bit different, I don't know - it just worked. Hope this is all gone with channels now (unfortunately, I will be able to check for myself only when FM3s will be available in EU :)

2. I'm tired of "come on guys, real amps have gaps too!" approach. I_DON'T_USE_AMPS_THAT_DO_NOT_SWITCH_SEAMLESSLY, for God's sake. EVH 5150 III 50W is a good example. Anyone hear any audio gap there, when switched from dedicated FS? :) I know, not all amps switch perfectly. I just avoid those.
How does this sound to you?


It sounds pretty seamless to me.
 

Randalljax

Forum Addict
Yes, but the 'silence' in the changes is what people are complaining about.
Better than a loud pop
I dont hear much silence in that clip
The distorted guitar and clean are almost on top of each other

The biggest difference that make it stand out is if you have noticeable different levels between scenes
 

JoKeR III

Inspired
It's either that or a pop. Which do you think people would complain about more?
Better than a loud pop
I dont hear much silence in that clip
The distorted guitar and clean are almost on top of each other

The biggest difference that make it stand out is if you have noticeable different levels between scenes
Read my previous comments, I'm not complaining about the 'lag', simply pointing out what the hubbub is all about. The silence in quotes is supposed to be an attempt at sarcasm.
 

notalemming

Forum Addict
Read my previous comments, I'm not complaining about the 'lag', simply pointing out what the hubbub is all about. The silence in quotes is supposed to be an attempt at sarcasm.
And we are pointing out the only other alternative, a pop. Hopefully, the complainers will see this & stop complaining.
 

Ghost_of_Cain

Inspired
How does this sound to you?


It sounds pretty seamless to me.
It does not to me, but it does not matter - the recording is inconclusive (for my assessment). Please kindly record 2 bars of straight eights played at around 140 BPM. Clean amp in one channel, high gain amp in the other. Could be palm muted, could be whatever you like. Switch with a foot while changing from D powerchord to A powerchord between bars, to make this a sophisticated piece of art :) Repeat 10 times and let me know if you were satisfied and managed to switch channels precisely with the relevant eight note.

I really do hope channels are better than X/Y or scenes in that particular matter. I will know if it works for me only when FM3s arrive in Europe. I'm not arguing and starting another discussion about audio gaps, and I'm happy for all those people who don't see any problem with that. Lucky them.
 

Randalljax

Forum Addict
It does not to me, but it does not matter - the recording is inconclusive (for my assessment). Please kindly record 2 bars of straight eights played at around 140 BPM. Clean amp in one channel, high gain amp in the other. Could be palm muted, could be whatever you like. Switch with a foot while changing from D powerchord to A powerchord between bars, to make this a sophisticated piece of art :) Repeat 10 times and let me know if you were satisfied and managed to switch channels precisely with the relevant eight note.

I really do hope channels are better than X/Y or scenes in that particular matter. I will know if it works for me only when FM3s arrive in Europe. I'm not arguing and starting another discussion about audio gaps, and I'm happy for all those people who don't see any problem with that. Lucky them.
Lol
Are you really switching from a D power chord on A Recto to an A powerchord on a twin 10 times in a verse a 140 bpm or being sarcastic
Cant tell

That would be the sonic equivalent of driving a Ferrari at 100 and slamming in the brakes to a listner
That would be worse than a gap to me
 

Ghost_of_Cain

Inspired
Lol
Are you really switching from a D power chord on A Recto to an A powerchord on a twin 10 times in a verse
No, of course not. But 10 times from clean Recto channel to red Recto channel during one gig - can happen :)

That would be the sonic equivalent of driving a Ferrari at 100 and slamming in the brakes to a listner
That would be worse than a gap to me
Yuck, you got it completely awkward. I leave automobile metaphors for my children, but if you insist: changing from clean arpeggio to sudden burst of overdrive has a lot in common with Wankel engine revving from neat and silent 5000 RPM to 10000 RPM in a blink of an eye. Ever tried that? :)
 

AlbertA

Forum Addict
It does not to me, but it does not matter - the recording is inconclusive (for my assessment). Please kindly record 2 bars of straight eights played at around 140 BPM. Clean amp in one channel, high gain amp in the other. Could be palm muted, could be whatever you like. Switch with a foot while changing from D powerchord to A powerchord between bars, to make this a sophisticated piece of art :) Repeat 10 times and let me know if you were satisfied and managed to switch channels precisely with the relevant eight note.

I really do hope channels are better than X/Y or scenes in that particular matter. I will know if it works for me only when FM3s arrive in Europe. I'm not arguing and starting another discussion about audio gaps, and I'm happy for all those people who don't see any problem with that. Lucky them.
I think I know what you are getting at... So we physically will tap the switch at the 8-th note, but because of the gap, it seems like we are missing the beat a little. So the challenge is to press the switch earlier than the 8-th note to make it appear on time...

Still that seems like an extreme example to me.

Here's my take, pressing the footswitch at the tempo, In this case, I'm switching both the amp and the cab channels, which apparently make the gap bigger (around 70ms).



This is just changing the amp channel only, cab stays in the same channel, so the gap is shorter:

For contrast, this is using 2 amp blocks switched using the multiplexer block

 
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Ghost_of_Cain

Inspired
I think I know what you are getting at... So we physically will tap the switch at the 8-th note, but because of the gap, it seems like we are missing the beat a little. So the challenge is to press the switch earlier than the 8-th note to make it appear on time...

Still that seems like an extreme example to me.

Here's my take, pressing the footswitch at the tempo
That's it, thank you! Third sample is a holy grail I sought since I bought my first AX8 (of course it was not possible to get even close to that, due to obvious reasons). When I really needed such quick transition (you're right this is extreme example...) I ended up using drive pedals in the chain as clean channel :) (amp kicked in only for overdriven tone). That was something! Hours I spent tweaking drive pedals to sound like simple clean channels...

Anyway. Mid track, the one without the cab being changed, seems to be almost ok; still not there, but could be acceptable. It doesn't seem to differ much however from best results we got from scene or X/Y changes back in the days, when wise people helped me here on the forum, to get most from AX8. Untill I get my FM3 and finally feel it under my fingertips - I can't tell whether it would be enough or not.

Thanks!
 

AlbertA

Forum Addict
That's it, thank you! Third sample is a holy grail I sought since I bought my first AX8 (of course it was not possible to get even close to that, due to obvious reasons). When I really needed such quick transition (you're right this is extreme example...) I ended up using drive pedals in the chain as clean channel :) (amp kicked in only for overdriven tone). That was something! Hours I spent tweaking drive pedals to sound like simple clean channels...

Anyway. Mid track, the one without the cab being changed, seems to be almost ok; still not there, but could be acceptable. It doesn't seem to differ much however from best results we got from scene or X/Y changes back in the days, when wise people helped me here on the forum, to get most from AX8. Untill I get my FM3 and finally feel it under my fingertips - I can't tell whether it would be enough or not.

Thanks!
Now improved in FW 5.07 - Changing Amp channel only or Amp + Cab has the same gap, which is now lower at around 40ms.


 
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