L6 Powercab 112+ is the real deal

[Musicroom]

Glad to help. I've used quite a few low to mid level powered PA monitors with the Axefx std, II and now AX8. Everything from Mackie, JBL (several models) QSC, Carvin, original Atomic powered cab. Most have sounded good, but none have made me giddy like the powercab. I've never been able to try the high end powered speakers like XiTone, new Atomic or others, so I can't speak about them. I can say that using the powercab, for clean, high gain and everything in between, it sounds and feels like a guitar cab behind me, and then when I switch to piezo, it's full range makes it sounds like a sweet acoustic. It's the perfect solution for me. Moving the IR's from the AX8 to the speaker is the icing on the cake. The tone and feel has been so inspiring, I'm having a hard time setting my guitar down to do other things... like talk to my family

Very good to hear that. I can get dxr10's at dealer cost, but hesitant because the thought of getting something like the CLR, XiTone, etc that are made specifically for modeling keeps nagging at me. I have played through the CLR's but was not quite as taken by them as I hoped (after all the praise they get). They did sound good though. Still deciding. FWIW I mainly play worship music now so something that will replicate my VOX and Lonestar sounds I have in FOH will make me a happy player. And yes, you may want to schedule in family .

 

[Purplestrats]

Insideout, are you pairing up all your amp models with the speaker simulations in the L6 and then switching by midi? How does that compare to using the L6 as a FRFR and running the cab sims in the AX8? I'm considering whether to order the PC or PC+. I don't need to free up DSP, so I don't really feel like I need the PC+ unless I'll be using midi and switching between speaker sims a lot.

 

[InsideOut]

Insideout, are you pairing up all your amp models with the speaker simulations in the L6 and then switching by midi? How does that compare to using the L6 as a FRFR and running the cab sims in the AX8? I'm considering whether to order the PC or PC+. I don't need to free up DSP, so I don't really feel like I need the PC+ unless I'll be using midi and switching between speaker sims a lot.

Great question. Honestly, I think the IR's from Ownhammer etc. sound better than the speaker sims in the PC. The speaker sims have a drastic low cut, so I would have to alter my presets pretty heavily to use them. I thought (before I got it) I would mostly be using speaker sims and the occasional IR, but it turns out I'm just using the PC + with IR's I've loaded into it. Therefore, if you don't care about relieving the IR burden from the AX8, the regular PC would be perfect for you. But if you find you like both the speaker sims AND IR's, you won't be able to change between them from the AX8 without the plus. Either way, using the speaker sims or IR's, it sounds and feels way more like playing a real cab than any powered PA monitor ever has for me.

 

[Purplestrats]

Great question. Honestly, I think the IR's from Ownhammer etc. sound better than the speaker sims in the PC. The speaker sims have a drastic low cut, so I would have to alter my presets pretty heavily to use them. I thought (before I got it) I would mostly be using speaker sims and the occasional IR, but it turns out I'm just using the PC + with IR's I've loaded into it. Therefore, if you don't care about relieving the IR burden from the AX8, the regular PC would be perfect for you. But if you find you like both the speaker sims AND IR's, you won't be able to change between them from the AX8 without the plus. Either way, using the speaker sims or IR's, it sounds and feels way more like playing a real cab than any powered PA monitor ever has for me.

Sounds like you really like this thing! I'm hearing mixed reviews online, some people think the FRFR is terrible. I think a lot of these bad reviews could stem from user error though. Especially in the plus model, where the flat mode has 3 different "voicings." Incredibly, it doesn't seem to default to the FRFR mode, but rather a mode that turns off the tweeter. Also, I bet a lot of people are messing up their gain staging in their modelling units.

One other thing I'm curious about is this: when I plug my AX8 into the FX return of a combo amp, I go through some settings in addition to turning of cab sims. I set the low res frequency in the amp block to match the resonant frequency of the cab I'm plugging into. I also make sure speaker compression and speaker drive is set to zero. I imagine one would have to do these things with the L6 power cab too, when using one of the speaker models. (green, cream etc).

 

[yeky83]

Sounds like you really like this thing! I'm hearing mixed reviews online, some people think the FRFR is terrible. I think a lot of these bad reviews could stem from user error though. Especially in the plus model, where the flat mode has 3 different "voicings." Incredibly, it doesn't seem to default to the FRFR mode, but rather a mode that turns off the tweeter. Also, I bet a lot of people are messing up their gain staging in their modelling units.

That's cus it's not an FRFR. Although the marketing and manual say that it's an FRFR, Line 6 employees have clarified that it's not an FRFR in thegearpage forum. Dunno why they made things so confusing for people... -_- Anyway, people who are expecting it to be an FRFR are going to be disappointed.

 

[Purplestrats]

I don't want to get bogged down in discussions about what's really "FRFR"

But it seems a lot of people are unhappy with the results of running their normal patches (cab sims and all) into the flat modes in the power cabs... while others are very happy with it, like the OP. I'm just speculating on possible reasons why.

 

[yeky83]

I don't want to get bogged down in discussions about what's really "FRFR"

Discussion? It's in the name...
Yes, FRFRs all sound a bit different, but they all fulfill the requirement of being full range flat response when measured on-axis. The Powercab does not per Line 6 employees.

But it seems a lot of people are unhappy with the results of running their normal patches (cab sims and all) into the flat modes in the power cabs... while others are very happy with it, like the OP. I'm just speculating on possible reasons why.

Some people want their FRFR to be accurate. Others like OP want a speaker to be more guitar-cab-like. Different preferences, different reactions. That's my speculation.

 

[Purplestrats]

Well I guess marketing people just can't help themselves. Too bad if L6 employees need to run around internet forums to clear things up.

Personally I do not mind if the flat modes aren't perfectly FRFR, if the upside is that it feels more like a real amp. I'm perfectly happy going direct when I play live, the powercab will be for practice at home and perhaps the occasional jam with buddies.

 

[InsideOut]

The PC may not be flat response. But it is full range. So it can sound and feel like a guitar cab, and it can reproduce above 5k like a full range monitor. A regular guitar cab can not do both, and a PA monitor can not do both. This is the solution I've been looking for, and the PC delivers.
As for the flat mode not sounding good with modeler cab turned on, that's just not the case. If I use an AX8 preset with cab turned on and PC in flat mode, or load the same IR into the PC and disable cab block in AX8, they sound and feel identical.

 

[yeky83]

The PC may not be flat response. But it is full range.

It's less full range in the bottom end than actual FRFR types it competes with.

So it can sound and feel like a guitar cab, and it can reproduce above 5k like a full range monitor. A regular guitar cab can not do both, and a PA monitor can not do both. This is the solution I've been looking for, and the PC delivers.

Yeah it's pretty cool! Again, I'm glad it's working for you, it's a cool tech

As for the flat mode not sounding good with modeler cab turned on, that's just not the case. If I use an AX8 preset with cab turned on and PC in flat mode, or load the same IR into the PC and disable cab block in AX8, they sound and feel identical.

Of course they sound and feel identical. It has nothing to do with whether someone would like the sound of flat mode or not.
All you're comparing is:
[Ax8 -> IR] -> Powercab flat mode
Vs
Ax8 -> [IR -> Powercab flat mode]

 

[InsideOut]

It's less full range in the bottom end than actual FRFR types it competes with.

Yeah it's pretty cool! Again, I'm glad it's working for you, it's a cool tech

Of course they sound and feel identical. It has nothing to do with whether someone would like the sound of flat mode or not.
All you're comparing is:
[Ax8 -> IR] -> Powercab flat mode
Vs
Ax8 -> [IR -> Powercab flat mode]

For a guitar, it really doesn't matter if it's less full range in the bottom end. That's why we have a bass player . Also, I still have low cut on my IR setting because it can be boomy if you don't tame it. So yes, you probably wouldn't want to play a bass through it, but that's not what it was designed for.

I know of course they sound identical regardless of where you put the IR. I was just responding the the statement that some people were giving poor review because it didn't for them. They were obviously missing something in their settings.

And yes, it is super cool tech. They really put a lot of thought into it. I've never been a huge fan of L6, and I've always thought their products didn't live up to their marketing, so I went into this with much skepticism. After 5 minutes with it, you couldn't pay me to take it back. Turn it up to half way and stand in front of this thing and your pant legs will be a flappin and the tone is simply delicious.

 

[Purplestrats]

After spending some time with the PC, I'm actually quite impressed with it. Going straight "plug and play" into the FLAT mode is interesting... it's like playing a guitar specific PA speaker, which I guess is the idea. Most of my patches translate quite well, and I do prefer it to the mid priced powered speakers I've used before.

Where the PC shines for me right now is with the built in speaker simulators. I'll describe a couple of patches I made:

Fender Vibrolux (Vibrato Lux) amp model. Speaker drive and speaker compression at zero, low res frequency around 75hz (manufacturer spec). Drive (volume) about halfway, take out a little bass and add some treble maybe, depending on what pickups I'm playing. I use the VU meters and the level knob to get the signal averaging around 0DB. Use the Jensen speaker in the PC. It sure sounds and feels like a Fender combo amp to me, and I've owned a few...

AC-20 amp model into the blue speaker... I change the low res frequency as before, tweak drive and the tone cut dial to taste. I like the 12AX7 B model the best.

Next I guess I'll get started on a Marshall or Friedman into the greenback speaker.

 

[GuitarDave]

@InsideOut - try running your PC + in LF Flat mode with your AX8 IRs/cabs. It's one of the three options for Flat mode and it gives a very natural guitar amp response using IRs - much better than the FRFR mode IMHO. The LF Raw is also pretty useful but it requires more EQing if you use IRs/cabs - but with some amps it sounds great as it's own thing.

 

[Piing]

I think if someone has an amp in the box pedal, or a modeler that doesn’t have user IR’s, this product makes good sense. It’s basically solving the problem of an IR loader and a monitor or FR speaker or whatever you want to call it.

If you have a modeler that has the ability to load Ir’s though already I don’t see it adding that much over just having a powered FR speaker.

With my axe III I can load 4 different IR’s and mix those right in the unit, then I output that to my atomic CLR. I don’t know the exact spec but I’m assuming it probably doesnt have the ability to blend IR’s or a library of over 2000 etc, right ?

So maybe I’m simply not the target market, but they seem to be marketing this product to modeler users as much, if not more so than just guys who want to plug into a pedal board only solution.

Just seems if you already have a FAS product you have a great cab emulation and all you need is any old FRFR and your in business.

Point taken you could save a little cpu not using a cab block but that block isnt a real hog anyways, and especially with a II or III very few people seem to be really running out of cpu in most cases.

Again not knocking the product and I know it serves some good purposes but I can’t see it bringing much to the table for most FAS owners

I personally dont have a plan to sell my CLR’s and get this

Good point about the lack of need of an IR loader when we already have an Axe-FX. But I've just found that there is also a "Power Cab 112" (without the plus) that has no IR, no display, no USB, no MIDI... and it is cheaper.

I am seriously considering the Power Cab 112, because there is no CLR, Matrix or Xitonic available in Thailand

 

[GLiDE BPM]

Duplicate of my post from the other thread:

I've had Atomic CLR and a crap ton of other FRFR cabs.
Right now I own the following three:

1. Mission Gemini 2 (2x12 with dual 12" coaxial drivers). This is by far THE LOUDEST of any FRFR I've had.
It just plain ROCKS!!! The real cab to full FRFR dial is nice! Love this one, but it's the heaviest of the three.

2. Xitone MBritt convertible open/closed back (original Matrix amp) 1x12" coaxial.
This is the loudest of the two 1x12" FRFR's. It has good tone and 5 EQ settings that range from full FRFR to actually running without the horn driver.
Very nice! and it's the second heaviest of the three.

3. Line 6 Powercab Plus. Lowest power output of the three, but the lightest. Volume is sufficient for use with a band with an acoustic set drummer
that hits hard, especially if you have it tilted nearby or up on something. Make sure and jack the input gain up all the way on the presets and hit save
in order to get the max volume out of her.

If I could only have one, it would be the Gemini 2. Powercab Plus would be second due to portability and versatility!

 

[Ken Balangue]

so you said, using Ax8 you can switch IR in powercabplus? i just bought powercab112 not the plus, since i dont hve the helix,

 

[Gasp100]

Hi, I gig an AX8 and I'm considering the PowerCab or (+) as well. I'm also in SC, are you any where near Myrtle Beach? Cool review, I think I'm going to give this combo a shot. I really like my current patches into even lower quality FRFR (Alto TS110a and a bit better, Yamaha DXR10). I guess my first test should be AX8 with internal IRs to PowerCab in "flat mode" (vs. FRFR mode?)
I'm not very interested introducing MIDI cables into my rig, but I guess having the flexibility is nice.
So you are able to switch patches on the AX8 (no IR loaded) and it instantly switches the loaded IR in the PC+? No major latency issues?

If you are gigging and relatively close I'd love to come hear your band and rig in action!

I'm not going to list all the features and functions because you can see all that on the L6 website. What I will say is, this is the most promising solution I've tried since I switched to modeling. I'm using the Powercab 112+ with the AX8.

I've always loved the immediacy and thump of a real guitar cab and the way it interacts with the guitar for easy feedback etc. For this reason, sometimes with the AX8, I use a poweramp and 1x12 cab with a V30 in it. The thing I don't like about it is, I'm stuck with a single speaker (not a big fan of V30 for Fender cleans etc) and it is not FR so my piezo equipped electric sounds like it has a blanket over it no matter how much I EQ it.

I also really like using a powered PA monitor because it is FR and I can use any cab IR I want, and my piezo sounds great. I convinced myself that the convenience was enough to compensate for it sounding like a mic'd cab and not a cab on the stage behind me.

Enter the Powercab 112+. It does both, and it does them remarkably well. I can load IR's into it and then create presets that can be selected by midi PC from the AX8. This removes the burden of cab block from the AX8 so it frees up a chunk of CPU. Also, since my AX8 preset can specify which Powercab preset is active (per scene), it means I can switch from any IR with high and low cut if wanted, to FRFR, or bypass the tweeter and use just the woofer, effortlessly. And since the woofer is a custom designed speaker from Eminence, it genuinely gives you the "in the room" feel - even with IR's.

I wish a youtube video could convey this, but it really is something you have to try because it's more of a feel and interaction difference than a sound difference. But it combines the best of using a speaker cab and powered PA monitor into one really well thought-out unit. I have never really been a fan of L6 amp modeling, but they really thought this powered speaker through and it puts a giant sh*t eatin grin on my face every time I crank it up.

 

[JTI]

Hi, I gig an AX8 and I'm considering the PowerCab or (+) as well. I'm also in SC, are you any where near Myrtle Beach? Cool review, I think I'm going to give this combo a shot. I really like my current patches into even lower quality FRFR (Alto TS110a and a bit better, Yamaha DXR10). I guess my first test should be AX8 with internal IRs to PowerCab in "flat mode" (vs. FRFR mode?)
I'm not very interested introducing MIDI cables into my rig, but I guess having the flexibility is nice.
So you are able to switch patches on the AX8 (no IR loaded) and it instantly switches the loaded IR in the PC+? No major latency issues?

If you are gigging and relatively close I'd love to come hear your band and rig in action!

Frank posted these locations where Helix/PC rigs are setup in GCs around the country. You could always take the AX to one of those providing you are semi-close or if you go on a road trip? There are 3 pages of locations in this imgur album, fwiw.

I might give a 2x12 PC+ a shot if it existed but the 1x12 was a little too thin sounding for my taste. Which I am assuming is a result of it actually being a 1x12

 

[InsideOut]

Hi, I gig an AX8 and I'm considering the PowerCab or (+) as well. I'm also in SC, are you any where near Myrtle Beach? Cool review, I think I'm going to give this combo a shot. I really like my current patches into even lower quality FRFR (Alto TS110a and a bit better, Yamaha DXR10). I guess my first test should be AX8 with internal IRs to PowerCab in "flat mode" (vs. FRFR mode?)
I'm not very interested introducing MIDI cables into my rig, but I guess having the flexibility is nice.
So you are able to switch patches on the AX8 (no IR loaded) and it instantly switches the loaded IR in the PC+? No major latency issues?

If you are gigging and relatively close I'd love to come hear your band and rig in action!

I would try all the modes and see what you like. But yes, with the +, the AX8 can send a PC to change preset on the PC and there is no noticeable latency. Sadly, I'm in the upstate, so if you drove 4 hours to see my band, that would be 3 hours and 45 minutes longer than anyone else is willing to LOL.

 

[Gasp100]

I pulled the trigger on the standard PowerCab for a good deal. At this point in my life I'm really looking for simple setup and great minimalistic tones. My stuff is really dialed in well and I can't imagine it sounding as good as my Alto TS110a. I'll report back!