Kind of want more switches…

M

marsonic

Power User
I’m thinking about adding an MC6/8 for a variety of reasons. I don’t need more than 6 switches and the 8 won’t fit on my current pedalboard.

So…do I go ahead and buy the 8 and a slightly larger pedalboard just in case? Or risk spending more later?

Also…are the switches too close together? They’re tighter than anything I’ve used. How is it using them in practice.
 
It seems many can do fine with just 3 switches. Some need 6, or 9, or even 12. More switches give more “on the fly” options without the need for going to hidden views or banks. It’s a plus, in my opinion, especially for live performance. But you sound reasonably sure that 6 is all you need, and it fits both your use scenario and your pedalboard. So there are good arguments either way, and no one is going to know better than you what’s best.

If pressed for an answer, though, I’d just tell you that I chose an RJM MMGT/22 for my switching duties. I’m sure it’s clear what I’d choose between more or fewer switches!
 
unix-guy said:
WTF?
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Yeah.....that's one of those too-good-to-be-true things. The shop supposedly sells t-shirts, but they seem to list nothing but crazy cheap tech. I did a little digging into the domain/site and found some "scary" things. I'm going to go ahead and say DO NOT BUY.

1. They're running code that attempts to detect visitor's email addresses. Sadly, sometimes this kind of thing works thanks to some of the "make everything easy" things that some browsers do. I can't figure out how it's doing all of it, and I don't really have the time to dig into it further than I did. FWIW, Brave Browser seems to be very good at blocking this kind of thing.

2. The code on the website is weird. They're using a mix of different methods to do the same kinds of things in different places. That's not "wrong", but it's a bit odd. I guess I do that some too, but I don't like it.

3. There are a lot of references to "omesaas", which is very similar to "onesaas", which is an Intuit product that connects e-commerce software to QuickBooks. It almost looks like they're trying to make a half-casual observer who digs just a bit not notice it isn't the same thing.

4. The address given is the Student Center at St. Louis University. Except that it says "Louis, MO", which doesn't exist. I assume they meant St. Louis.

1666183119670.png

5. The JS console spits out Chinese text.

I'm convinced it's a scam. At best, they're trying to do tracking and email collection.

I did email Morningstar so that they know, and apparently it's not the first time this has happened. They also said they can't do anything about it, which implies that it's foreign.

So, yeah....real strong caveat emptor on this one. If you're going to try to order one, use a disposable card that can't lose you more money than you spend on the thing, close it after the first transaction, and be ready to pursue a charge-back.

ETA: sometimes, there are upsides to being a dork.
 
marsonic said:
Also…are the switches too close together? They’re tighter than anything I’ve used. How is it using them in practice.
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I had the MC6 and felt the switches were too close together. To activate one I had to be careful with the toe of my shoe.

I eventually sold it, and bought the FC6 which integrates so nicely with the modelers. Yeah, they’re bigger, but they’ll sit nicely beside a pedal board, and they work with the Edit app.
 
Rick said:
It seems many can do fine with just 3 switches. Some need 6, or 9, or even 12. More switches give more “on the fly” options without the need for going to hidden views or banks. It’s a plus, in my opinion, especially for live performance. But you sound reasonably sure that 6 is all you need, and it fits both your use scenario and your pedalboard. So there are good arguments either way, and no one is going to know better than you what’s best.

If pressed for an answer, though, I’d just tell you that I chose an RJM MMGT/22 for my switching duties. I’m sure it’s clear what I’d choose between more or fewer switches!
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The Mastermind stuff looks awesome. There is something to me about the aesthetics of those bigger controllers that I really like. But...my "rig" seems a bit too minimal for that. I do like that the footswitches are spaced out a little more than on the Morningstars. They seem like they could be a bit tight.

I can get all the control I need with just the FM3 and pedals in front of it (currently a tuner and a TS that I like better than the Fractal ones). And, I'm actually not using layers or views....it's literally just the 3 switches toggling Control Switches that do the things I need. I'm not even using hold functions right now. I generally don't like layers/views/etc. on any of my gear. But, that probably is the best way to try it out.

But, there are a few other things I kind of want to try. Some of them, I can rig up with another view. I should probably do that to make sure they work. But, they'll have to send more than 1 command at a time....it gets a bit convoluted with the fractal switches and almost seems like it could be easier with MIDI. And the Morningstar firmware, specifically, seems like it could make some of the things I want to try really simple.

If I end up liking those things, I could see wanting more switches. Or I could see it winding up in my drawer of gear I don't use waiting for my next gear purge/sale. IDK...if I ever upgrade to an AF3, I could also see basing the pedalboard on almost any of them. And while I don't need an AF3, I would like to try playing 2 amps at some point.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
I had the MC6 and felt the switches were too close together. To activate one I had to be careful with the toe of my shoe.

I eventually sold it, and bought the FC6 which integrates so nicely with the modelers. Yeah, they’re bigger, but they’ll sit nicely beside a pedal board, and they work with the Edit app.
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That's disappointing.

When I saw it on pedalplayground, I started kind of wishing the morningstars were the exact same but like 50-75% bigger.
 
marsonic said:
The Mastermind stuff looks awesome. There is something to me about the aesthetics of those bigger controllers that I really like. But...my "rig" seems a bit too minimal for that. I do like that the footswitches are spaced out a little more than on the Morningstars. They seem like they could be a bit tight.

I can get all the control I need with just the FM3 and pedals in front of it (currently a tuner and a TS that I like better than the Fractal ones). And, I'm actually not using layers or views....it's literally just the 3 switches toggling Control Switches that do the things I need. I'm not even using hold functions right now. I generally don't like layers/views/etc. on any of my gear. But, that probably is the best way to try it out.

But, there are a few other things I kind of want to try. Some of them, I can rig up with another view. I should probably do that to make sure they work. But, they'll have to send more than 1 command at a time....it gets a bit convoluted with the fractal switches and almost seems like it could be easier with MIDI. And the Morningstar firmware, specifically, seems like it could make some of the things I want to try really simple.

If I end up liking those things, I could see wanting more switches. Or I could see it winding up in my drawer of gear I don't use waiting for my next gear purge/sale. IDK...if I ever upgrade to an AF3, I could also see basing the pedalboard on almost any of them. And while I don't need an AF3, I would like to try playing 2 amps at some point.
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Yes, I think you’ve got a good handle on it. I used the GT22 for live performance for years. The funny thing is that, when using the Axe Fx at home, I still use the full size 22 with it! The spacing is, as you note, better for my feet, and the screens on the RJM simply kill anything else. I’m so spoiled by it.

Im on the list for the FM9 again (passed on it the first time, when I chose the III Turbo instead). Hopefully I can adjust to it for easier transport to rehearsals and on smaller stages in the future. The little screens are my only point of doubt, but we’ll see (literally) if that proves to be an issue.

Best of luck in finding the switching option right for you!
 
Rick said:
Yes, I think you’ve got a good handle on it. I used the GT22 for live performance for years. The funny thing is that, when using the Axe Fx at home, I still use the full size 22 with it! The spacing is, as you note, better for my feet, and the screens on the RJM simply kill anything else. I’m so spoiled by it.

Im on the list for the FM9 again (passed on it the first time, when I chose the III Turbo instead). Hopefully I can adjust to it for easier transport to rehearsals and on smaller stages in the future. The little screens are my only point of doubt, but we’ll see (literally) if that proves to be an issue.

Best of luck in finding the switching option right for you!
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Besides co$t, the thing that concerns me about the GT22, which otherwise looks awesome, is the potential faffing around because it's not an integrated part of the Fractal ecosystem.

How easy is it to set up, relative to the FCs?

I hear it has some knowledge of the commands needed to do Fractal stuff, but is it close to complete, so you can do most of the same things? You don't have to research Fractal controller numbers and midi commands, etc, do you?

There's inherently going to be some lag on new Fractal features, not only on the GT side. For instance, I think setlists aren't (yet?) accessible via midi on the Fractal side.

I gather that overall you're pretty happy, just curious how much fiddling you've gotten used to.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Besides co$t, the thing that concerns me about the GT22, which otherwise looks awesome, is the potential faffing around because it's not an integrated part of the Fractal ecosystem.

How easy is it to set up, relative to the FCs?

I hear it has some knowledge of the commands needed to do Fractal stuff, but is it close to complete, so you can do most of the same things? You don't have to research Fractal controller numbers and midi commands, etc, do you?

There's inherently going to be some lag on new Fractal features, not only on the GT side. For instance, I think setlists aren't (yet?) accessible via midi on the Fractal side.

I gather that overall you're pretty happy, just curious how much fiddling you've gotten used to.
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The folks at RJM work with FAS to keep the GT series up to date. There is a place to select Axe Fx III to communicate without a lot of programming. Its not 100% automatic, but it can be quite simple. On the other hand, much like the Axe Fx itself, it can be quite deep and incredibly capable in a broad spectrum of uses. It’s a pro device that lends itself to semi-pro or enthusiast endeavors alike.

That said, nothing is as native to FAS gear as the FC series. The FC is a captive controller, more a dedicated workstation than a stand-alone computer. It is plug and play with Fractal gear and is only compatible with Fractal gear. Because of that it can not only be initially native, but remains native by concurrent update when required. It’s a really cool system, and is both simple for the user while being quite effective at what it does.

By contrast, the MMGT is a stand-alone controller that can send and receive information from any midi device, control multiple devices at the same time, and be programmed to send a large number of midi commands with a single button press. It is not device-specific, so you can control many things such as lighting, keyboards, amp switchers, etc, at the same time you’re controlling your Axe Fx.

So, the MMGT and FC are different devices entirely, from design up, intended for different missions, though they have some overlap. Considering this, it’s easy to understand why the FC requires very little programming, and the MMGT can go from relatively simple functions to incredibly complex control with deeper programming. It’s really all in what you need.
 
unix-guy said:
I seem to recall reading that RJM already has a full-featured setlist functionality, but I might be misremembering...
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Actually I think you're right, now that you jog my memory. They don't control the Fractal setlists as a remote for them, they have their own setlist functionality built in, works with anything that accepts midi program changes.

Don't know if it knows about scenes though. I assume the unit does in general, right?
 
Dave Merrill said:
Actually I think you're right, now that you jog my memory. They don't control the Fractal setlists as a remote for them, they have their own setlist functionality built in, works with anything that accepts midi program changes.

Don't know if it knows about scenes though. I assume the unit does in general, right?
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I believe so.

I'd be surprised if it couldn't select preset + scene as part of the Setlist.
 
unix-guy said:
I believe so.

I'd be surprised if it couldn't select preset + scene as part of the Setlist.
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Coding such functionality could be done by sending a preset select message directly followed-up with a scene select message. Could give a sound effect when changing scenes on the fly if the preset starts with the pre-programmed scene. There is probably a better way to do it if you know the sysex hash for a preset scene combi change which my guess is that RJM has that information. Bummer that this info is private
 
unix-guy said:
I seem to recall reading that RJM already has a full-featured setlist functionality, but I might be misremembering...
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Dave Merrill said:
Actually I think you're right, now that you jog my memory. They don't control the Fractal setlists as a remote for them, they have their own setlist functionality built in, works with anything that accepts midi program changes.

Don't know if it knows about scenes though. I assume the unit does in general, right?
Click to expand...

unix-guy said:
I believe so.

I'd be surprised if it couldn't select preset + scene as part of the Setlist.
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Sorry, I wasn’t clear on those points. Yes, you can easily access all of the functions in the Axe Fx. Scenes, channels, individual parameters, controllers, external switches. I point out that this accessibility is a great reflection on the proper design by Fractal Audio, as well. As a instrument for any level of musician, stand alone or integrated, the Axe Fx doesn’t play amateur games with proprietary access trickery. Being equally pro-use-intended, the RJM takes full advantage of that interaction.

And yes, the GT series has its own song/set list capability. Again, it can continue to do full control even if the Axe Fx is turned off or taken out of the loop, so it maintains those functions in its own circuitry.

The best way to describe the RJM Mastermind series is to say that they are the Axe Fx of midi foot controllers. That’s high praise in my book! Let me also add that the FC controllers are equally awesome, just intended for a more specific and FAS-limited audience. Both have their place, and both are great at doing what they were meant to do.
 
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Axelman8 said:
There is probably a better way to do it if you know the sysex hash for a preset scene combi change which my guess is that RJM has that information. Bummer that this info is private
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If I remember right, that’s listed in the FX3 MIDI documentation, so it’s not private. It’s a Program Change then a Scene Change, which are separate MIDI commands though.
 
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Rick said:
Sorry, I wasn’t clear on those points. Yes, you can easily access all of the functions in the Axe Fx. Scenes, channels, individual parameters, controllers, external switches. I point out that this accessibility is a great reflection on the proper design by Fractal Audio, as well. As a instrument for any level of musician, stand alone or integrated, the Axe Fx doesn’t play amateur games with proprietary access trickery. Being equally pro-use-intended, the RJM takes full advantage of that interaction.

And yes, the GT series has its own song/set list capability. Again, it can continue to do full control even if the Axe Fx is turned off or taken out of the loop, so it maintains those functions in its own circuitry.

The best way to describe the RJM Mastermind series is to say that they are the Axe Fx of midi foot controllers. That’s high praise in my book! Let me also add that the FC controllers are equally awesome, just intended for a more specific and FAS-limited audience. Both have their place, and both are great at doing what they were meant to do.
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Before I bought my FC6 and FC12 I was giving serious consideration to getting a RJM. They’re impressive.

I eventually decided against it because I only needed to talk to the Fractals, not anything else with MIDI.
 
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