Kiesel No More

the nut on my kiesel Vader works perfectly. I've never had the Allen wrenches cut a string, and it holds the unwound strings perfectly. I've just purchased an 8 string Zeus (bolt on single cut headless model) with a 1 piece neck to travel with and it also works flawlessly... the one piece maple neck is so stable it was perfectly in tune when I landed.
 
I had a Carvin CT6M with a Floyd Rose that I had built by Carvin in 2008. Beautiful guitar but would not stay in tune.
Took it to my luthier and he found the nut was installed wrong and was not stable. He had to drill out the holes, add wood dowles and reinstall the nut.

Better but still not a s stable as I wanted so I sold it.

I could have sent it back under warranty but Cali is a long way from Michigan and I took the easier route. Should have been right to begin with.
Yep. Should have been right to begin with. Jeff goes on and on about how Kiesel takes great care and pride in drying their wood before assembly. I keep my Vader near 40% humidity, and after two months the frets stuck out of the side of the fretboard far enough to cut my fingers due to fretboard shrinkage. Now the fretboard is splitting down the centerline, cracking the inlays. The Allen setscrews cut the strings, strip, and won't hold the unwound strings. The clearcoat is lumpy with pronounced waves when viewing a reflected light source. The H22 pickups I purchased are incorrectly assembled (I finally checked them to confirm).

I'm as bummed as I am pissed. Carvin was my go-to brand for decades. My 1992 DC127 is going strong; no problems whatsoever after 26 years of use and abuse. Same for my 1994 DN612 and 2000 DC127. My new Vader is trash.
 
I know that's what Fractal Audio would do in this situation.

Ah, M@... if only the world was like this. Companies like FAS are indeed very few and far between. I do all I can to support them.

Should have been right to begin with.

Exactly. I just got a second CT6 (used) and found that it had ground issues. Once I traced it down, I found the guitar had been drilled for a bridge ground, but one had never been installed. At all. The hole was foil taped over in the control cavity, and still full of sawdust. I had to pull the bridge studs to put one in. That just shouldn't happen. I'll grant that they'd probably have made that right with the original owner if asked, but you really never should have to ask for something like that. Anyway, it's fixed and a great companion for my other CT6 now. I just thought it illustrated more of the "could be so incredibly good, but isn't" experiences here.
 
I'm preparing to ask for warranty service for the split fingerboard and inlays. Anyone want to place bets on whether they will deny service simply because I installed a Roland GK internal kit that has no effect on the neck whatsoever? My guess is they will screw me.
 
I'm preparing to ask for warranty service for the split fingerboard and inlays. Anyone want to place bets on whether they will deny service simply because I installed a Roland GK internal kit that has no effect on the neck whatsoever? My guess is they will screw me.

Keep us posted!
 
Exactly. I just got a second CT6 (used) and found that it had ground issues. Once I traced it down, I found the guitar had been drilled for a bridge ground, but one had never been installed. At all. The hole was foil taped over in the control cavity, and still full of sawdust. I had to pull the bridge studs to put one in. That just shouldn't happen. I'll grant that they'd probably have made that right with the original owner if asked, but you really never should have to ask for something like that. Anyway, it's fixed and a great companion for my other CT6 now. I just thought it illustrated more of the "could be so incredibly good, but isn't" experiences here.
Well if it was bought used, that's a case where you don't really know if it was Carvin/Kiesel or the previous owner, isn't it?
 
I just got a vader with a trem around christmas time. I love it and couldn't be happier. It replaced my Ibanez JS1000 as my number one guitar and that's a tough guitar to beat.
 
I figured out the problem with the nut. The setscrews used to hold the strings were a random jumble of two types, both crap.

The screw on the left was used by Kiesel for four of the strings. The bottom of the screw has a vertical wall that instantly transitions to a flat bottom, forming a 90 degree angle. This screw slices through a string like butter.

The screw in the middle was used by Kiesel for the second and third strings. It has a shallower angle where it contacts the string, and will not cut a string. But neither will it hold a string under .011" no matter how hard you tighten it.

The screw on the right is one I picked up at my local Lowes for 30 cents. The contact surface angle is somewhere between the two types of Kiesel screws, and holds the strings securely, yet will not cut a string no matter how hard you tighten it. I replaced all of the screws with these and seem to be problem free.

Were it not for the sheer luck of finding these screws at Lowes, my $2100 guitar would still be useless, due to a 30 cent part that Kiesel just couldn't get right.
 

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Well if it was bought used, that's a case where you don't really know if it was Carvin/Kiesel or the previous owner, isn't it?
When the hole is in the body, but the original copper tape that exactly matches my other CT6, is taped over it with no hole made for the wire to come through, and the hole still has material from drilling the hole in it, I feel it's reasonable to assume it was shipped like that. It would take a lot of intentional effort to make it look that way, and to what purpose? To make your guitar buzz like a bumble bee? No, my friend, this was a factory QC miss. :)

Hey guys, I have loved and raved about how great Carvin guitars are for decades. Many of my friends have purchased them on my recommendation. I'm not hating on the company. I'm just pointing out that I have had customer service issues repeatedly, and this recent purchase bears out what the OP was saying about quality control problems. I still play my Carvins. But great is great and I have given them much credit where they've been great. Crap is also crap, and it is fair to give that it's place too. Great guitar with some crappy QC. As a personal experience comparison, I don't find this in my PRSs (yet) and have had great service (so far).
 
Forgot to mention the longitudinal crack that developed in the fretboard spanning 10 frets and splitting three inlays in half. I've never had any other guitar with this problem. This guitar is shit. I'm submitting a claim for warranty repair, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to do right by me.

Jeff claims he changed the name to honor his grandfather. I suspect that it was more to stroke his own ego. I also suspect that his grandfather would be saddened at what has become of his company's service and quality control.

FWIW, I have a Taylor Limited series 12-string where the fretboard split like that. It happens.
 
FWIW, I have a Taylor Limited series 12-string where the fretboard split like that. It happens.
As a part time wood worker I will attest to that! Nothing worse that having a really nice pice of Curly Koa split open after you have spent long hours finishing it off like a pice of glass.
 
I have two guitars made by them (1 is a Carvin bought in 14 and the other is Kiesel bought last year). Both are incredible instruments, and the customer service was great. My Kiesel is a silverburst which was an Option 50 build so I dealt with one person from the onset of the order to the delivery. It took a little longer than promised, but I couldn't be happier with it.
 
Just came across this thread. Firstly as full disclosure i live 20 minutes away from the Kiesel Factory so do know a few of the guys over there.

Mark Kiesel is still running the factory with his son Jeff. He has been running it since the 70s. I talked to him at NAMM this year.

I've played quite a few of their guitars and all have been great quality.

Bit the bullet last year on a build Jeff was making that was going to go to NAMM. Saw it being built in his live videos and loved the finish so when it was complete I drove over when he said he would sell it to me.

I went over it at when I got it home and it is absolutely flawless, this is what Kiesel do strive for and I know there are very many satisfied owners.

For the original poster if you want to PM me with who you spoke to maybe I can help you resolve any issues. No promises but i'm surprised customer service did not resolve any problems.
 
Just came across this thread. Firstly as full disclosure i live 20 minutes away from the Kiesel Factory so do know a few of the guys over there.

Mark Kiesel is still running the factory with his son Jeff. He has been running it since the 70s. I talked to him at NAMM this year.

I've played quite a few of their guitars and all have been great quality.

Bit the bullet last year on a build Jeff was making that was going to go to NAMM. Saw it being built in his live videos and loved the finish so when it was complete I drove over when he said he would sell it to me.

I went over it at when I got it home and it is absolutely flawless, this is what Kiesel do strive for and I know there are very many satisfied owners.

For the original poster if you want to PM me with who you spoke to maybe I can help you resolve any issues. No promises but i'm surprised customer service did not resolve any problems.

I've offered up the same and I don't think he is looking for any help at least there was no acknowledgment to the offer.
 
Please allow me to blow off some steam here.

I own four Carvin/Kiesel guitars. Two DC127's, a DN612 Double Neck, and a Vader. I've been playing them as my main guitar since 1992. But the company's quality and especially customer service, despite appearances, has gone to crap.

One example; I recently ordered a pair of H22 Holdsworth 22-pole humbuckers. The coil wiring and/or internal construction did not match the Carvin standard (I have successfully installed other H22, M22, C22, and Lithium pickups). They behaved, sounded, and tested wrong no matter how they were wired (and I am very experienced at this). My inquiries to Kiesel about the proper wiring, or the possibility of assembly error, of these H22's went unanswered. No reply. None. The pickups are in a drawer, where they will remain indefinitely.

I also recently ordered a Vader with a $400 top to be hand-selected and fit by Jeff Kiesel. I sent in pictures of the type and direction of flame I wanted. What I received was exactly what I explicitly told them I did NOT want. Since it took 12 weeks to build, and I needed the guitar to pay the bills, I kept it.

Now, the lock nut on the headless Vader is proving to be garbage. They use the ancient design, first adopted then abandoned by Kahler, where an Allen screw insert rotates directly onto the string, acting as an effective string cutter. The line between the Allen screw holding or cutting is a very fine one. You must be very very careful to screw it down hard enough, but not too hard.

Now, the nut won't hold the unwound strings. They just slip through the Allen screws no matter how hard you tighten them. This design is an abomination and should never be used on any guitar, let alone a $2000 guitar. It is a joke. Kiesel has yet offered no reply, let alone useful help. I replaced it with a $4 Chinese part from Aliexpress that has a much better design. The quality of the metal is poor, but at least the design securely holds the strings without breaking them.

I've loved and used Carvin guitars for many decades. But I'm afraid I have to say goodbye. Their customer service is a disgrace compared to what it once was. The first problem I ever had was with a 1990's double neck. Mark Kiesel called me personally to resolve the problem. That was then. This is now, and now sucks.

I'm sure dozens, if not hundreds, of you have nothing but glowing things to say about them. I was once like you, and I understand where you are coming from. I wish I could still be there with you.
See I’ve seen the opposite side of things. I’ve played a three old Carvins, and one of them was fantastic while the other two had some tuning stability and sounding dead issues. A friend bought a Carvin before the switch to Kiesel and ended up returning it.
I now own three Kiesels, two Vanquish and one Vader, and one of the Vanquish came with some fret leveling issues and a dodgy pot, but once that was sorted out it’s been absolutely perfect. I always expect to have a guitar set up after receiving, and although I was slightly annoyed at having to relevel the frets, this is wood we’re dealing with, and thousandths of an inch, and things do move.

I have a few PRS core models, but my Vader is what I play most often.

Now I will say that all this is anecdotal, and if I had your experience, I would almost definitely be of the same opinion. And hearing my good experience probably doesn’t make you feel any better.

But I do think that it’s important to look at a large sampling of people’s experiences to get a general idea of the quality that a company is putting out. I’ve seen a few recurring complaints, but I’ve also seen a lot of guys saying they’re going back for their 10th and 11th guitar from Kiesel.

I do agree regarding the locking nut, and I do think there’s room for improvement in the bridge adjustment for the Vader; Specifically the threads should be finer on the tuners so that it’s easier to make fine adjustments.
 
I had a Carvin Jason Becker a while ago, and have/had two Osiris guitars. No quality issues on any of those. I do not like the design of the tuners on the Osiris, I find them difficult to tune.
 
I would imagine all of these transactions were paid for by credit card. A simple charge back would get their attention and replies to your inquires. Follow the money, as they say.
 
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