Kemper user here who just got an FM3 - blown away

well, you should have read better. On every forum that I frequent I find mockery of this dirge repeated every time a new firmware comes out.

but, beyond this, it's my ears that tells me that what i hear in FAS is not the sound of "that" amplifier, but the sound of "that" amplifier if it was HIFI. It's something in the high frequencies i cannot explain but just makes it plastic and not real. I know maybe metal guys can enjoy this but i look for vintage sounds and not AX8 neither FM3 made me happy.
Again, it's just my ears
Output compression set to feedback, increasing the levels somewhat, as you loose some volume typically + some eq settings for a "clearer", more TS style sound = that's how I've been replicating my kemper profiles with fm3 specifically. That goes a long way (for me) in getting a more kemper kind of feel if that's what I'm after. That's the process I went through through when comparing my kemper direct profiles to fm3 amp sims, to see how close I could get.
 
well, you should have read better. On every forum that I frequent I find mockery of this dirge repeated every time a new firmware comes out.

but, beyond this, it's my ears that tells me that what i hear in FAS is not the sound of "that" amplifier, but the sound of "that" amplifier if it was HIFI. It's something in the high frequencies i cannot explain but just makes it plastic and not real. I know maybe metal guys can enjoy this but i look for vintage sounds and not AX8 neither FM3 made me happy.
Again, it's just my ears
Well, provide some examples of that or cut the crap.

So you have done A-B comparison between real amps and Fractal? Or have you compared Fractal to Kemper? What methods have you used? Have you tried emulating a vintage amp signal path (vintage-like amp, cab, eq and/or other post-effects)? What was it that you did find ”too hi-fi”? Amp models? Cab models? Something else? If your answer is ”just the sound is too hi-fi”, I don’t think you understand how to use these units to the fullest extent. This is also known as user error.

I hope you realize it’s not like you plug in to a 70’s amp model with a modern IR, listen it through modern hi-fi studio monitors and expect it to sound like a 70’s recording. Some Kemper profiles can do this with vintage style IR’s and/or EQ alteration, which is also possible in Fractal products.

It’s no rocket science, but it can be tricky unless someone has done everything ready for you (like a Fractal patch or Kemper profile).
 
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I didn't feel kemper people cared about improving the core amp tones/maybe truly believed it's "spot on".
That's because that's the "party line". They know their basic premise is flawed: making a sonic copy of a sound profile (basically making an ir - same as what we have with the Tone Match block) and then sending your signal past a filter. That's not amp modeling at all. Not even a little bit. There's nothing to improve except maybe the fidelity of the ir capture. After that, you're stuck.
 
because in real life it would never occur to you to go to touch certain parameters of an amplifier (just as you would not use 10 different amps in a single concert but that's another matter) and I find excessive complexity a big limit and a potential waste of time on one hand when making tones, on the other hand it introduces the question of "not having done enough for your sound".

I've been using analog and then digital systems for 30 years, but any system of any type must simplify the life of those who use it and bring it to the result in the most intuitive way possible.

again, that's my way of seeing things, i'm just a simple user :)
Not true. Why do you think so many guitarists spend money modding their Marshalls?
 
Not true. Why do you think so many guitarists spend money modding their Marshalls?
Exactly. Axe FX amp models are fairly limited compared to all the possible electronics you can change inside a real amplifier. Not even talking about cabinets, speakers, effect units, cables etc. It’s endless.

Now you don’t have to change any components in your real amp unless you want to, but you feel anxious to be able to tweak advanced parameters in a digital model?

If you’re not sure what a parameter does in a digital model, you actually can just leave it there. Just like you wouldn’t change a component in a real amp if you’re not sure what it does.
 
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I just got my fm3 and ev-1 in last couple weeks and have been completely enthralled with them and now you mention cygnus?.. are you trying to make my head explode?....i hope the frac releases more info on this soon as too much is never enough especially when it comes to fractal products
 
@Jimmykonsta I've had all the Fractal products and currently play a Kemper. They both have downsides. You can sample 20 crappy profiles and miss the good ones then come to a conclusion that the Kemper sucks and has all the problems you described. There are about 5% killer profiles and the other 95% range from crap to horrid crap.

The frustrating thing with Fractal is the endless parameters that one finds themselves tweaking for hours never being satisfied. That's why they sent their 'A team' out to the pros using their gear to replicate and dial in the tones.

Just my 2 cents.
 
@Jimmykonsta I've had all the Fractal products and currently play a Kemper. They both have downsides. You can sample 20 crappy profiles and miss the good ones then come to a conclusion that the Kemper sucks and has all the problems you described. There are about 5% killer profiles and the other 95% range from crap to horrid crap.

The frustrating thing with Fractal is the endless parameters that one finds themselves tweaking for hours never being satisfied. That's why they sent their 'A team' out to the pros using their gear to replicate and dial in the tones.

Just my 2 cents.
I almost exclusively used kemper to profile amps and use these profiles. The issue was always kemper "ts" tone compared to source. While it's possible (well it happens a lot for sure) that someone plays profiles not fitting to them and comes to conclusions that don't follow, I also think some dislike kemper tones for reasons having to do with innacuracy in profiling.

But the OP can test that easily. Have an fm3 tone you feel is superior? Profile it and see what happens. When I do that, assuming there's no multiple distorting stages (or something that still confuses kemper and it all goes to poop), I get the familiar kemper "feel" I've known for years and years.
 
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@Jimmykonsta I've had all the Fractal products and currently play a Kemper. They both have downsides. You can sample 20 crappy profiles and miss the good ones then come to a conclusion that the Kemper sucks and has all the problems you described. There are about 5% killer profiles and the other 95% range from crap to horrid crap.

The frustrating thing with Fractal is the endless parameters that one finds themselves tweaking for hours never being satisfied. That's why they sent their 'A team' out to the pros using their gear to replicate and dial in the tones.

Just my 2 cents.

To be honest, I never quite understood people complaining about options...having all these parameters in the fractal is the same with having all these profiles in the kemper. It's up to the user to use on not to use them. The main difference though is that in the fractal they are for free...:)
 
I still go back and forth between the modelling on the Axe III/FM3 vs Kemper. For some reason, the Kemper sits ever-so-slightly better in mixes I've done (which are admittedly crap, I'm a novice). A really good profile sounds and feels as good as the Axe III/FM3 IMO, but the ability to tweak faithfully makes me lean toward the Axe if I want to play a certain amp type and tweak. The Axe sounds amazing all the time, whereas there are a LOT of crap profiles out there.

Having said all this, I'm very much looking forward to hearing/playing Cygnus.
I sold my Kemper, there is a sound i can't unhear in it. The Quad Cortex capture has promise, the review by Paul Davids ripped it a bit in other categories. My hand keeps hovering over the buy button on the Axe FX III but holding out to see more about the QC and what Fractal has coming up...
 
I would probably enjoy an editor with two modes better, one simple and one advanced (And I'd only ever use the simple one)
Have you actually used the Kemper editor? What a pain locking and unlocking things, profile and performance modes etc. Late to the game and poorly thought out and implemented! (I say this as a Kemper owner BTW). Add in the rude staff and the fact that many can hear a “Kemper sound” in each profile (I personally don’t but could be deaf!) and a whole host of other issues like limited routing, lack of an audio interface, no Win7 support etc and the Axe product just looks better and better.
 
I love the Kemper. I've owned more times than I would like to publicly admit. It sounds excellent through a traditional guitar cabinet. I am not quite as enamored with Fractal in this same manner. Probably something I haven't quite clicked into as far as poweramp interaction with the "traditional" gear? When I went that route; I had the AX8 and didn't give it much of a go that way because I was all about moving away from regular guitar amps and cabinets. But Fractal sounds GODLY through powered monitors. I am nowhere near as much of a fan of the cab portion of Kemper profiles. Through a powered speaker; it's a lot less impressive, imo.
 
@Jimmykonsta I've had all the Fractal products and currently play a Kemper. They both have downsides. You can sample 20 crappy profiles and miss the good ones then come to a conclusion that the Kemper sucks and has all the problems you described. There are about 5% killer profiles and the other 95% range from crap to horrid crap.

The frustrating thing with Fractal is the endless parameters that one finds themselves tweaking for hours never being satisfied. That's why they sent their 'A team' out to the pros using their gear to replicate and dial in the tones.

Just my 2 cents.
nope. I don't have to touch hardly any parameters beyond the basic tab and am more than satisfied. simply not true.
 
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I sold my Kemper, there is a sound i can't unhear in it. The Quad Cortex capture has promise, the review by Paul Davids ripped it a bit in other categories. My hand keeps hovering over the buy button on the Axe FX III but holding out to see more about the QC and what Fractal has coming up...
Yeah, I was not able to unhear that sound in a Kemper after realizing/hearing there was a certain sound that was part of the Kemper sound/process.

I really didn't notice it during the first weekend of having it while I was playing the Kemper since I was loving the "feel" of an amp through the Kemper and a tube power amp with cab (something I had "previously" felt was lacking in the FAS products).

However, I was commenting to a friend on how much I was digging the Kemper at NAMM 2019 (on the very last day of NAMM) but then he pointed out that he was not able to dial out a certain sound that was coming across in all of his Kemper profiles.

I went home and listened for it and I was not able to unhear it afterwards so then I had spent two weeks researching ways to dial it out but I could not remove it from the Kemper.

I sold it immediately afterwards and I am glad I did sell it since I found the newer Ares 2.0 firmware on my XL+ had taken things to a new level.

Currently, the firmware for the AX3 and FM3 give me that amp tone AND feel that I have always wanted through a tube power amp and cabs.

I had considered getting a QC since I did like some of their plugins, however, they also have a sound that you are not able to dial out (the Neural DSP people had suggested through an email that I increase the noise gate to eliminate it and I found it just killed the notes by increasing it enough to eliminate it).

Actually, you could hear it every time you stopped playing if the noise gate was not set high enough.

I had read about it in their forums so I started listening for it and I was not able to unhear it as well once I heard it :-(

It might be something that stays or gets eliminated in the QC, however, I am looking forward to hearing/feeling the Cygnus on my AX3 and FM3!!
 
That's because that's the "party line". They know their basic premise is flawed: making a sonic copy of a sound profile (basically making an ir - same as what we have with the Tone Match block) and then sending your signal past a filter. That's not amp modeling at all. Not even a little bit. There's nothing to improve except maybe the fidelity of the ir capture. After that, you're stuck.
They could improve the EQ matching facilities. You can literally (as opposed to.. metaphorically?! Lel) EQ match a profile in your daw to the profiled source tone and get closer.

It's a little interesting. I've strong Finnish reason to think quad cortex is generally more accurate than kemper (and feels so when you play), without going into further details. And now a lot of the people claiming how "perfect" kemper profiling is, for years, are about to be faced with tests where quad does better. How is that possible considering kemper is spot on in regular circumstances?

There will always be an excuse of course. Didn't refine properly, the amp is a rare one and kemper can't profile some rare amps pla pla pla; you had preamp plus power amp distortion and nobody credible uses that, ect. Some of these matter, absolutely. No doing about that. But they've also become go-to talking points to obfuscate real shortcomings.

Now of course fm3 cannot even EQ match, never mind capture or profile. So on that end it's not part of the conversation, you could say .. But heck! I shot some diezel profiles a while ago. They included a friedman cab miced with an 57. "Studio" profiles.

So I thought to myself: ok, I'll have to shoot an IR of that, as I had done in the past, and then I'll be able to match the FM3 to the amp as well.

But then lazyness struck and I just picked an IR from the included ones in the box. I don't recall which one. It may have not even been a friedman cab, for all I care -- I'm sure it sounded quite different compared to my set up.

Then due to all the advanced parameters, EQs, pla pla, it took what.. about 5-10 minutes to get really really close. With a nearly random IR using sm57. That was pretty telling to me when it comes to how powerful these units are with all the advanced parameters at play (which also often influence EQ). I've done the same since other times, for the sake of random experimentation.

(You end up with some fairly "non standard" fractal amp sim settings, and shooting IR is still best for me for many reasons, more reliable too but ok).
 
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